25 People Dead, Mostly Children, at Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

I meant that my comparison of the Florida shootings was lame because...actually now that I think about it..

My point is that it's that "me" against "them" mentality that helps to perpetuate the continuing onslaught of senseless murder we hear about all the time.

 

I know what I would do in a life or death situation. The problem with people is they don't respect the firearm and or people for that matter. I think people need a psych Eval before being permitted to own a firearm.

 

Another nutjob in America decides to seek attention by killing kids with a gun. There is another argument about guns and gun laws, people argue for and against it. What's really new here?

 

Same old arguments different tragedy. Those who are against guns assume that these lunatics wouldn't become more resourceful if they couldn't use guns (IEDs come to mind). And the people for guns see it as further proof that we need guns forgetting that you can't have a gun in the school or in a movie theatre for that matter. The people with no experience will feel they are right. And the people with experience will feel they are justified. It doesn't really end because there isn't a simple answer.

 

I would tend to say, as in other things, it's a matter of preference. Same as would I eat pizza or meat loaf. Do I like yellow or green. And for the love of toast why won't that porn star fuck black guys?

I'm against guns because they kill. That is their sole purpose. I'm not against people owning guns if the process itself wasn't so broken. The rifle that kid had? I guess..you can go to a gun show and for 700$ you can buy one. No background check, no ID..nothing. I know they argument is "it's for killing deer! Not children!"
That's nice. But if it had been used at Sandy Hook, it wouldn't have been deer that died.

I just find it beyond reprehensible that in America people can buy guns like they buy bras or cake. Just go in walk around a bit..and whammo presto! A hunting rifle.

No one seems to be able to come to a sensible solution. I did read an op-Ed that talked about the for-profit insurance industry being put in charge of sells and background checks. And also that people who own guns would have to purchase users insurance for each gun they use.
This, seems to be some kind of temporary solution. If a for-profit was checking licenses..it would be a complete check. And if they knew that the owner of the gun had to pay insurance on said gun every month..and that if they for instance sold a gun to a person with mental illness and would be liable for any damages..incidents like this would be come less and less.
Because talk is free and whiskey costs money.

 

I can understand both sides. People who haven't been shot at, had vehicles blown up, or haven't been mortared, or people who never lived in bad places would obviously look at things from a different point of view. The idea that, "If we remove this item then people won't kill with it because that is it's only purpose". It is a logical thought if you make the assumption that, "All people have great intentions and will always be sane and do the right thing". It's a lovely thought. But, people are people and if they want to kill, they will find a way. Not all killers are sick people and not all sick people are killers. There are just certain people who do these things. If we took away the guns then they would ultimately have to get more resourceful. And if that involved explosive ordnance then ultimately the death toll would be higher. There have always been crazies. And there always will be. The problem with people who are for guns vs. people who aren't is that they both feel that they have the answer. The truth is there isn't a simple answer because you can't gauge the human mind, the motives of a few, and the level of sanity in every individual.

 

I don't see how making people by insurance for it curbs anything when the result is death if the wrong person gets their hands on it. If you lost a loved one in a spree killing I think the last thing you're concerned about is compensation. I know that we won't come to an agreement but keep in mind there are far more people killed by drunk driving, way more people killed by medical eras, way more people killed household accidents. Not saying we should dismiss what happened but can we really examine the true cause. Mental health treatment as well as ONE gun owner being completely irresponsible. If this were truly a problem gun deaths by LEGAL guns would be a hell of a lot more than the nearly 200 deaths we've seen this year from legal guns.

 

Ok...first off...you keep saying cars and drunk driving and medical errors and household accidents..
The key word there is accidents.

And ONE gun owner being irresposible?
What about the little boy who shot himself in the face with his parents gun?
Or the Aurora shooting? Or the Treyvon Martin death.
Or the 35 people who die on a daily basis to related arms accidents.

See, when you say accidental arms death..that's like a oxymoron taken to like quantum physics level math.
If your are holding a gun and it goes off and you shoot yourself and you die..that was no accident. That's what the gun is made to do.

If you are standing on a latter outside and dog runs by and you fall and break your neck and you die...that's a accident.

The insurance thing would not solve the problem. Nothing at this point will solve this problem. But it has to be contained.

Would you let a bunch of people with contagious TB run wild because, what the hell, Can't STOP TB..
No you do the best you can, collectively, to contain it so LESS people get sick.

So you do the best you can so that LESS people die from gun related deaths. Which by the way, another HUGE oxymoron right there.

And putting money on the table will be the best regulation.

If it cost something...people think twice.

 

Ali it already cost something, if I accidentally shoot someone that's negligent homicide. Gun discharges already come with heavy penalties if you aren't using guns correctly.
And when I can use TB to stop a rapist from raping my girlfriend then that becomes a valid argument.
I am not advocating for people to walk the streets with weapons, but why should be restricted from protecting my home because there's literally a one in a million chance that some lunatic is gonna get there hands on a gun and wreak havoc. Gun violence with LEGAL guns are extraoridinarly well contained. For the millions that own guns and we see such a small number of gun deaths by legal guns says a lot. Its like saying that if one solitary restaurant serves poison in their food that absolutely no restaurant can be trusted.
I know you personally don't see a point in having a gun, fine don't own one but that doesn't mean there aren't literally millions of responsible people who lock their guns up appropriately and keep them away from crazy people.

 

Have i ever at one point during this thread said...take ALL guns away? NO..
I haven't said that. Not once.

I don't like guns. I don't own them. You want one to shot the potiential rapist of your girlfriend. Great! Own one. But Neither of our personal solutions solve the epidemic of violence and homicide in this country.

So there has to be a middle ground.

Of course no one will ever come to one because all the people who want guns are saying that the people who don't want them to take them all away.
No...I certainly haven't and I don't think Tarsh or Jordan even said that.

I'd like to think, just the same as you, about being able to protect your girlfriend from the rapist that is going to break into your apartment at anytime and commence raping, that my kids and my grandkids will be protected as well from getting shot up in school while drinking juice and eating cookies.

See?

 

Like I said its a tragedy but let's be real locking the doors to the school so that not just anyone can walk in will do way more in that respect than trying to regulate gun laws.
The sad and honest truth is that NO WHERE on earth is truly safe and we were just reminded of that.
And lets not over exaggerate this is a solitary incident lets not make it sound like people are going into schools taking shots at kids on a regular basis.
The "Never Again" strategy has never worked. Look at drunk driving, you have organizations like MADD that despite all their crying over lost children can't really prevent drunk driving unless we raise the legal driving age to 30 when people are less likely to go out drinking and then driving home.
I get wanting safety for your children, but we have to be realistic and honest about what actually caused the problem. A solitary situation does not a trend make.
Even if you want to take spree killings as a whole into it they've accounted for less than 200 deaths this year and even less per year over the last three years. We just have a media in this country that's entire purpose is not to report anything but to keep people watching.

 

*sigh*

Oh, that's wonderful. Less than 200 people died in shootings this year.
AND HEY! EVEN LESS LAST YEAR!

are you forgetting that their are OTHER PEOPLE attached to these dead people that WILL suffer a whole life time without them?
Are you forgetting about the children NOT growing up with a parent or a parent who can never celebrate a birthday or a wedding or a graduation with that child?

This doesn't happen in a vacuum and people..real, everyday people suffer horribly because of shit like this.

And by the way...the school WAS locked. He was let in because he was a teachers relative. And the priciple died from trying to prevent him entry.

So yeah...it is helpful to keep everything on lock down. Where it can be done..
The schools here?
You can't lock them down. You can lock the doors to the classrooms. But if an insane fucknut decided to go to the elmentary school down the street and play gears of war for real he would only need to wait till recess.

Dead children everywhere.


Merry fucking Christmas.

 

I love it when people talk about the one legal drug that has cause so much problems but has yet to be made illegal in whole.

 

Per the CDC, the United States AVERAGES 30,000+ gun deaths A YEAR.

That is pure insanity.

It's almost more than 2x the amount of drunk driving related fatalities in the U.S.

In a few years we're going to have more than 300 million firearms in circulation among the general population, with most of those firearms kept in personal arsenals 3 or more guns.

It's too easy to buy firearms in this country and we have too many of them on the streets. IMO there's something uncivilized for one of the world's most advanced societies to be so emotionally invested in gun ownership.

Owning a handgun does little to nothing to prevent most rapes, or most crime in general. It's a myth the NRA has sold America that owning a gun makes you safe. It makes you FEEL safe, but most people rarely have their guns at the ready when their lives are truly in danger.

I don't know how people on one hand can be so concerned about the number of young BM killed every year by gun violence, yet not be concerned about putting common sense restrictions on gun ownership.

What kills me are those people who think owning a gun is the anchor that prevents this country from slipping into tyranny.:smt119
Really??

You're going to overthrow the U.S. military with your trusty Bushmaster??lol

When you travel outside of this country to nations similar to ours, America's gun fetish sounds like it's own special mental illness.

BTW I agree with everything Alinoa has said in this thread.

There should at least be hard restrictions on gun magazine capacity and most people being allowed to own a firearm no more powerful than a 9 mm.

 

False http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Closer to 10,000

Doesn't even rank in the top ten
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_07.pdf
You're more likely to die from suicide or an accident. Don't spread lies to prove your point fam

If you want to reduce magazine limits fine but how do you deal with the hundreds of millions of guns that are already out there and in the hands of criminals. Btw your homicides by guns are nearly all because of illegal activity so how does keeping guns out of law abiding citizens stop that or even reduce it?

 

:smt023

 

gun control is like doing the war on drugs (insert laugh here) all over

you motharfuckas need to wake the fuck up

bad people will still find access to them as they have been doing illegally for decades, while good people with good legit reasons to own one will be shut out from doing so

 

No one's making up anything.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

All firearm deaths

• Number of deaths: 31,347
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10

Someone's data is wrong, since the link is from the same site.:smt104

EDIT: THe difference is you're only counting firearms HOMICIDES, DK.
My stat includes ALL DEATHS that are the result of firearms, including 'accidental' or non-premeditated.

 

The killing of innocent kids is a great tragedy, and hopefully this will bring out some changes. I am pro gun ownership, but it's important to have some responsible gun laws.

Also another issue that is not being addressed is mental health. If we keep cutting access to mental health, we will continue to have this kind of tragedies and then applying the wrong fix again and again.

 

So 20,000 accidental deaths that have nothing to do with what we're talking about. I wonder how many of those accidental deaths were with LEGAL guns. I presume people willing to buy illegal guns aren't responsible enough to lock them up