25 People Dead, Mostly Children, at Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

You are saying you need a gun to shoot corrupt police officers?? I can't imagine you thinking that.

 

Oops, you're right. My bad.

LOL. No, what I'm saying is that police officers with all of that power are corruptible. Many of them become corrupt. Why put the guns in only their hands?

That's the whole reason for the U.S. 2nd Amendment - so that the citizenry can protect themselves from a tyrannical government (if one so happens to come to pass).

 

Repped

 

Give me a direct example of how a gun in your hands would solve that problem.

That would be like saying the lady at the grocery never gives me the right change and she pockets the extra herself. So I need a gun.

 

Look at this....the women knows her history........I can bet you ....your Christmas dinner.... that most forum discussants was not aware of and could not cite this very true fact......

 

Thats a ridiculous comparison Jordan. And to your point about just letting law enforcement have guns doesnt work at all. Again look at Chicago as an example probably the most strict gun paws in the Union but it doesnt stopheavy gun viopence by those who obtain them illegally. I understand people let fear take over in situations like this but the truth is there are already guns out there. If shut down production today and banned them millioms still own them and people who would get them illegaply could still get them throughsmuggling. So alp that happens is law abiding citizens lose the ability to protect themselves. If banning stuff worked there would be no war on drugs

 

Repped

 

You keep saying guns must go but you dont address how are people suppose to protect themselves against those with illegal guns?
And just like you said many people who are mentally ill arent violent just like most gun owners. So why do the fringe minority get to rule the behaviors of all. Way more people die from alcohop related deatjs but I dont see you pouring your wine down the drain every time some drunk asshole beays his wife and kids to death or drives drunk and kills families.

 

You have to remember Tarshi is from Australia where people don't view guns in the same light on such a massive scale as in America.

Lets be honest many Americans are obsessed with weapons, it comes from the history of the nation.

If you are not from a culture where guns are rampant and somehow deemed necessary then of course it is not going to be deemed necessary.

Bookie posted the quote about the 2nd amendment, tyranny and weapons.

Many Americans believe this whole heartedly and nothing will sway them from that, even the death of innocent kids in suburbia cannot shake their convictions about possessing weapons in their household.

We have an Amendment in our Constitution that allowed ownership of weapons, long before slaves were freed and women had the right to vote.

The NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington.

Guns are easy and accessible for both the criminals and law abiding citizens if either desires to get hold of one in our society.

We are a Gun Loving Culture, that is the bottom line.

I guess the only consensus then to be reached is we can only accept these tragedies, grieve for the victims and then the status quo continues.

I mean does it not bother anyone how a mentally disturbed individual could so easily access the most deadly weapon on Earth, a firearm. Not 1, not 2, 3 different weapons were on this perpetrator.

Does this not beg the question how is that possible and so easy. Cmon folks ask ourselves how that is possible that this nut had 3 deadly weapons on him that he used to rob toddlers of their lives.

 

Anyone who knows me knows I believe in personal responsibility to the core of my being, but I also recognize that with a proliferation of weapons in our society, it is one of the easiest ways to resolve one's issues and not everyone can exercise personal responsibility, because as human beings there are always those among us who cannot cope with the stresses of life and will want to lash out.

"I got fired, I hate my spouse, I hate my boss, my girlfriend left me, I'm depressed, I want revenge, let me get my easily accessible firearm and take care of it."

We can talk about knives, bombs and bazookas, but the reality is nothing is more deadly than a firearm.

Firearms in the hands of humans have shaped societies the world over, they are that powerful.

You ask TDK what about the criminals having weapons while innocent people who want to protect their homes and abide by the law.

The thing is every weapon that is out there legal or illegal originates from being legally obtained.

No gun originates from a point of illegal, that could only happen if manufacturing of weapons was illegal.

So somewhere along the chain it crosses from legal to illegal ownership, whether its stolen, obtained under false pretenses, etc.

You have two things in American society, rampant cultural violence and proliferation of weapons, which means ease of access to weapons for said violence. Guns are the most utilized and easily obtained weapon of choice for violence in our society.

 

It still doesn't matter if they were - with our porous borders on both ends, and sea cargo access, guns will get here. Mexico is a whole country with extremely tough gun laws -- laws that have just made it easier for the criminal to cause death at their whim.

What this country needs is the Federal Govt to ENFORCE the gun laws and gun ownership policies in effect already, not change them - they're doing a lousy job at it.

Yes, of course. Millions of kids play video games and don't kill. Same with watching violent movies, and use prescript drugs. I was being facetious to point out the absurdity that banning guns is the answer.

Frankly, had the teachers been armed, that asshole would have been shot dead before he could cause all that carnage. You cannot have citizens be helpless against the criminally insane.

 

Think about what we are saying about our society though Bliss, when kids in an elementary school cannot be safe and teachers have to be armed.

Has American society reached that low in standards of quality in our living environments.

It seems like a siege mentality.

This reminds me of when I was going to Junior High and we would be frisked for weapons before we could get in to school, telling that our society has become like that.

Truthfully the guns are not going anywhere, they are here to stay, one can only hope that while riding the bus or train some nut doesn't unleash volleys on folks because life has become too harsh for said individual.

We have a mayor here, Bloomberg in NYC that is no nonsense about guns and the murder rate and crime rate has fallen drastically as he has worked to stop the flow of guns from the Southern states into New York City.

 

We don't have that threat today. How would that protect you in modern times?? The bill of rights originally only legally protected white men, not Indians, black or women and you think that applies to the letter today?? That was written hundreds of years ago when that was a real threats of these things. Not today. Laws normally change to keep up with the times.........the NRA is so strong it keeps people believing they need a gun to survive or they aren't a free American.

People here act like it's the wild west where they are going to have a shootout with thugs or the government .........their rights in an amendment to the bill of rights written hundreds of years ago. Think about the times when it was written and what was the law and norm of the day. There was still slavery and no women's rights. Those things apply to the letter to today???? It's laughable that peopel use it to grasp on tighter to their guns. If all handguns were outlawed leaving but type that serve hunting for sport then no one would have guns. The thought of getting rid of them is a huge thing not fathomable.

 

There is something very wrong with that statement.

Precisely. IMO, it's un-American to want otherwise. This is why Nazi Germany could never have happened here. It's why North Korea has such a grip on its citizens. A disarmed society is an enslaved society.

 

That is the thing JC, many Americans still wholeheartedly believe these things.

Our society is the reverse in that if one suggests the idea of getting rid of guns, they are looked at as a nut for suggesting that.

Bob Costas when speaking about gun control after the NFL player shot his girlfriend and himself was criticized for it.

Then we had the Oregon shooting in the mall and now this mass killing yesterday.

 

Bliss I love you babe, but what would you or anyone else be able to do if you are riding the Philly transit and some pissed off individual decides to take out a bus or train full of people with an automatic firearm.

Even if we arm everyone, you have those folks who are trigger happy and you wind up with a Trayvon Martin on our hands.

Well I shot him cause he looked suspicious, I was fearing for my own safety, I felt threatened, etc.

This love affair that this nation has with guns is costing it the lives of many every year, look at the streets of Chicago, Memphis, Detroit, etc.

Its the choice of death in our society when it comes to violence.

If someone has a knife it gives you a fighting chance, a gun is a whole different story.

I think in America we love our guns, just like our drugs, etc. There is a high demand for both and so we are where we are here today.

The war on drugs is one of the most farcical things I have ever heard, given the demand for it is on the American side of the equation.

Just as its the case that guns are in demand, the more deadly the better, automatic rifles, assault weapons, high caliber rounds, etc.

 

Unfortunately we have to adapt to the times. When terrorists stormed the cockpits, we responded by bolting the doors, opening them to no-one...and arming our pilots. And they protect at best 300-500 people. When you have the lives of little kids and at least 1000 students overall under your care, you better protect them from the nutcase who may target your easy prey.

More adaptations - we have laws to keep registered pedophiles 500 yards from a school when we barely had to concern ourselves. Now we have laws against students bringing guns to school...each of those laws are often violated. The former we can tackle it if we see it by confronting the sexual predator, the latter we can only tackle with a gun back. Fight fire with fire, right.

There was a vice-principal of a school who was an ex-marine Vet. His school was invaded by a gun-toting student and because he was told he couldn't bring his gun on school property despite having a license to carry, he had to run 1/2 a mile to his car and back in order to disarm the shooter. Think VA Tech, you know he would have been stopped. Because the only thing that ever stops these bastards is a self inflicted bullet or a cop's bullet. But a bullet it is. Might as well be an earlier one from a teacher and save the kids.

*BTW, isn't Bloomberg's lower-crime success more to do with clearing out the petty criminals?

 

No doubts that society adapts but the notion of armed teachers is something that sounds pretty scary given one is supposed to be in a learning environment.

I think that we need to consider these things tells the state of our society and where we are as a culture.

America is a first world industrialized nation and our approach seems no better than that of "warlords" in Somalia. I gotta get my gun to protect mines from the others.

Nah, Bloomberg is fervently anti-gun, he even sued Virginia gun shops that were selling weapons that wound up in New York City soon after sale, i.e trafficked.

The response of the gun shops at the time was to hold drawings to give away free guns as a protest. Unreal, that is the mentality at work in these places.

Bloomberg told them he doesn't care what they do with their guns in Virginia, just keep it out of New York City.

Once he killed that supply the results have been reflected in the diminished homicide, robbery, rates.

Lets just say he is not a friend of the NRA and vice versa.

I for one am glad to have a mayor that values the lives and safety of New Yorkers and took tangible steps to make the city safer.

You will always have gun violence, its scale and frequency is the difference and if New York City is any example it can work.

I guarantee folks that the guns on the streets of Chicago come from states with weak gun control laws and likely Southern, once purchased with ease they are then trafficked North.

 

Not much. But I'd stand at least a fighting chance - do you see the difference?
It's so odd you mentioned this though, the other day 2 guys on the Septa subway got into a "who is a better basketball team" argument - and one pulled a gun out and shot the other guy and fled.

Criminals are trigger happy already. And fist happy and knife happy.

Also, do you think as much as we have heard that Trayvon had the struggle upperhand, had he'd been armed, don't you think Zimmerman would be dead and Trayvon alive? I do.

I agree with you on the sorry state of the streets of Chicago etc...but again, it's the criminal and not the law-abiding citizens. The crims will always have the guns. I don't believe half the death toll would be what it is in those cities if EVERYONE was armed or even believed to be armed. Does that carnage happen in Texas? Florida?

True. Btw, I never loved guns or wanted to. I only love mine because she keeps me safer. I'll keep repeating...I'll put her down when the criminals put theirs.

 

Well good for Bloomberg and NYers. He is a man of action so no faulting him there. (but he can he stop sending his paroled crims down the turnpike, thanks )

Speaking of the NRA, they pumped $200 million into legislators re-elections last elections.(remember what they did to Cuomo years ago). I don't like their fervency to let any ol' person get a gun and bypass the laws, nor their encouragement of gun-hoarding or their love of machine-guns and automatic assault rifles. They have pimped the Second Amendment by politicking the Right..and by that I mean the Right to bear Arms. I do think some sanity needs to be brought back. So please know I agree with much of what you say however until there is real change, I'm not changing.