Feminism and Misandry in Today's Society...

You are missing the point again, DK. I could bang on a wall I am so frustrated with your lack of comprehension.

I SAID that sexism is interwoven, and the men aren't exactly helping equality along by cherry picking what you want and don't want in a women based on those principles.

If you want true equality, as I do, then you would recognize that there are no gender roles in work or the household. There are simply tasks that must be accomplished, and people must be on even footing to do those things.

ETA: I think some men don't understand that when they say they want a relationship where they take care of each other, but then complain if/when she makes more money, or that one or both of them do not conform to typical gender roles and stereotypes, men complain about not feeling 'masculine' enough. I want an equal relationship - sure, maybe I do enjoy cooking and I also want to mow to lawn, and maybe he enjoys cooking and folding laundry, which I hate... so what?

But you know men would pick on each other if they found out he was cooking my meals and folding my laundry. I know this because I've heard it. Both sexes have to make a concerted, conscious effort to be more equal. Is it going to be anytime soon? No, I truly don't think so, because we have a lot of hurdles to jump, but is it possible? Absolutely. I hope that your kids get to experience some of it someday.

 

And where did I say that it wasn't woven into the country's fabric or that I personally believed in gender roles. The thing is it can't be ALL on men. Women contribute to it to especially now in this pc era where women can demand equality in some realms like work and school but demand to be treated like ladies in other realms like dating. Even if you personally don't do it would you deny other women do?
You act like men are dragging women back to our houses by the hair and forcing them to cook and clean.
And as myself and GQ have tried to lay out on this thread the kind of patriarchy you are so upset about isn't enjoyed by or promoted by bm in this country. The power structure to do that just doesn't exist for us.
So does sexism exist? Yes.
Do I think women support it in many instances? Absolutely
Do black men enjoy the benefits?
That's strongly debatable since our humanity is constantly being challenged in so many ways.
Not trying to blame the oppression olympics as you and Trix call it but I am trying to show there is a distinction that should be addressed.

 

Huntress, I like much of what you say, though it is hard to hear. The main thing is for everyone to not try to change society at one time, but to change your own little world. That is much easier. I can't do much about everybody else in the world, but if I open my mind and listen more to women like you, then hopefully, I'll be listened to also. Then we can start getting to where we want to be one day at a time.

 

You do know that you pretty much just said what I said, right?

 

No it isn't but I guess we'll agree to agree on this one lol

 

I would like to know why you directed these particular sentiments in your response to me, where have you ever heard me reference women by those disrespectful terms or even imply such neanderthal views of a relationship dynamic.

I'll take that as going off on a tangent.

There are many different kinds of women out here and they are free to do as they choose, that is their prerogative.

I'm just someone who has a low tolerance for b.s. and believe in mutual respect irrespective of gender or race.

You want to know something that blows away gender privilege DB, White privilege, yep that's right be it man or woman in Western society.

You had better believe there are many racist white women who happily benefit off of that and some who think they are oh so open minded and fair thinking that also benefit, unbeknownst to them.

So if we are going to speak of privilege, a dick as a black man doesn't give me jack squat over a white female in society.

Clearly you are referencing a case of white females seeking a level of equality on par with white males, because the numbers show white women fare far better than black males and females in Western society and we know why that is.

I think some of you ladies want to hear what you want to hear and not the things that make you uncomfortable.

I often play nice on here, but sometimes the ugly realities of the wider world has to be mentioned.

Both white men and white women are in a much stronger social position to discriminate and impact the lives of blacks irrespective of their gender.

So where is this great, advantage as a swinging dick black male in American society. What great benefits it has brought us, benefits such as job discrimination, earning less than white men and white women on average, a prison industrial complex that creates jobs for small town white folks in the middle of nowhere, constant stereotyping on the basis of historical, social discrimination.

I just tend to not beat a drum about it because that is not my personality. I save my shit for where and when it is thoroughly warranted.

 

I don't think that point has sunk in as yet about what is being said here.

Man I feel so privileged and lucky to be a black male, getting all those nice benefits of the white man. Not being stereotyped, not being pre-judged, oh lucky us. I've got it made, as if.

 

I honestly don't know if its a credit to how they can see past color or how focused they are on their own plight that they can't see anyone elses because it is a tad frustrating. I fully acknowledge that as a whole women get treated differently in comparison to most men. I acknowledge the fear of rape and abduction is not something that ever crossed my mind, I also understand that many of them feel like the work place is slanted against them in terms of equal pay but if we are to ever have meaningful dialogue about this type of subject matter we have to be honest and open on both sides. Saying black men enjoy male privilege is just plain untrue. One of the greatest examples of that is the shit I've seen the President of The United States go through the last few years. All the open second guessing, the way people try to talk down to him, the questioning of where he's from. It sure looks like race overshadows gender in that situation.
And to make it even clearer, imagine if a white woman murdered a black male what the results would be? Now imagine if the roles were reversed? There would literally need to videotape of her attacking him and her having a criminal background to have a snowball's chance in hell of not going to jail.

 

See that is the problem right there, you choose to look at gender roles and paint a broad brush stroke about what you think others views are and if it doesn't conform to your view then it becomes something counter.

Real equality lies in the capacity of a woman to make her own choices, irrespective of what those choices may be DB.

In my view no one gets to dictate what a woman does or doesn't do within the framework of her personal abilities, that includes you or some beer bellied, stained white t-shirt man on the couch telling his wife to pass him a beer.

Its a woman's individual prerogative to do whatever the hell she wants. That is equality. If she wants to learn how to do things deemed traditionally male so be it, if she wants to do things deemed traditionally female so be it. Why should anyone dictate to her on either side of the coin about what is to be done.

I normally would avoid these discussions because they tend to leech into an area that becomes full of assumptions and hasty conclusions.

You know nothing personally about the individual men here and what their views are towards these issues, their approach to relationships and how they interact with their partner.

I grew up with a single parent mother and learnt responsibility and accountability early on, its a discipline instilled in me that I carry to this day.

So many of these things you harp on about flies above my head because I've never felt the slightest bit of compunction to assume gender roles, but that may be because of my personal experience as the son of a single parent mother.

Your words may have value but clearly they are intended for a very different group of men in our society.

 

Notice that none of these ladies have tackled that point.

I don't think they see past color, I think its ignored for the gender point, an inconvenient truth.

I mean what exactly is this black male privilege enjoyed in Western society.

Can someone elaborate on it for me and tell me what those benefits are as a black man in America or the UK.

Time and time again we have asked why is it white women for all the suffering of them being women enjoy better wages than black males and females, better access to educational opportunities and no woman has dared to address that subject. Interesting to say the least.

Why is answering that being avoided. Its why I said that folks don't often like uncomfortable truths.

Look I love white women but I'm not naive to not know that being white trumps everything in American society, man or woman it doesn't matter. Few can deny that with a straight face. You only need look at history and then opportunities today in the real world.

Ask ourselves this question and you will get the answer

Are black men in Western societies in a position of power to discriminate against white females

Are white females in Western societies in a position of power to discriminate against black men

Which one is more likely, exactly.

But, but wait black men are men shouldn't they be enjoying some kind of privilege automatically because of that, yet amazingly its white females that enjoy more privilege in Western cultures, second only to white males when it comes to influence and power in movers and shakers.

What DB is talking about is seeking equality on par with white males for white females, that is the reality. A veritable gender war of the two for that privilege and influence in society.

Other groups don't even enter the equation with any credible merit. Its why not one of these women are willing to tackle the fact that white women earn more than black men and women in the employment marketplace.

 

Exactly, ever since his election some of the most filthiest, vile creatures have surfaced throwing around racial epithets without any sense of decorum and self restraint. They feel rather comfortable doing so now and that includes white men and women.

For your second point history attests to that dynamic very well. Many a black men have paid the piper for wronging white women, whether the accusations were true or not. Everyone knows about Emmett Till, but rest assured there are many others we will never know about.

Damn, that black male privilege I tell you.

 

Dude shit as simple as hailing a cab is something my chick has to do becquse when I do ot outside of business attire I'll be out there a good twenty minutes. Little miss NYU gets cabs within two minutes of her hand going up

 

:smt043:smt043:smt043

People don't know the freaking half of it bro.

I remember when I would come down from college and hail a taxi in Manhattan, I would tell the driver where I'm going and would sometimes hear on occasion, nah, I don't go to Brooklyn, mofo probably meant I don't go to that grimy area of Brooklyn.

Trust if I was to break down every shit as a black male in America, I could write a freaking dissertation.

You can be the most put together, eloquently spoken, respectful, well dressed black male and still you will get stereotyped and prejudged out and about. I know from personal experience.

Look at how quick Obama, an educated, Harvard grad, became a nicca in the eyes of many.

I learn to just deal with shit as a black man, you have to and not take life too serious, don't sweat the small stuff. That's how I roll in Life 101.

 

Both of you...listen up and listen well.

I have been talking for days...fucking DAYS about how I am talking about equality for ALL FFS, which is why I said I hope DKs kids get to experience it. I mentoon women because that is what I know. And then GQ, you go making it the oppression olympics again talking about white privilege and apparently I am supposed to feel bad when you ignored...again...the context of this thread and ithe topic being feminism.

Both of you continue to cherry pick instead of saying "yes, everyone should be equal". I dont know what the hot flipping fuck is so difficult about this concept.

 

In the arena of social injustices in this country, race still conquers sex.

That's about all I have to contribute to this thread.

 

Oppression Olympics my ass, its the reality of the world. This is not Mayberry

Calling it by any cute little name doesn't change the impact.

I am looking at the concepts and notions that you have used in your arguments about wage gap, gender roles, discrimination and am saying many white women have benefited over black men and women because their race supersedes their sex.

If you want to speak about the insufferable fate of women in society, then keep it 100 and recognize that white women still have a privilege over black men and women. But of course to you that is Oppression Olympics because it falls outside of your purported viewpoint.

You don't have to feel bad about white privilege, its reality is clear as the light of day, so I don't know why you keep inserting these little whimsical innuendos in your responses.

Ask yourself why are you trying to so easily run away from and dismiss that argument like its irrelevant, but yours is relevant.

You speak about equality for everyone and make the erroneous assumption that my views are somehow different from that.

I am at a lost to comprehend why you keep drawing hasty conclusions about the views of others when it doesn't share your mindset.

Your notion of equality seems to be according to your personal concepts of what is equal

Maybe you need to read my posts again when I mention

That is even simpler to understand. You don't have a problem with that do you, or do you just want to get to tell women what equality should encompass for them.

My viewpoint is a woman is capable of making her own decisions and choices in life about the things that impact her, if a woman wants to do every activity deemed masculine if she wants to that is her right and no one else's, just as if she wants to do every thing deemed feminine. A woman doesn't need to do what men do to prove a point to anyone, its her personal choice in life

That is equality, the freedom of choice to do as you desire and please.

I don't dare to sit here and tell a woman what she can and cannot do, I only control my own actions, so miss me with any notions of not wanting everyone equal, wrong party on that front.

I normally would excuse myself from these sorts of discussions because it tends to possess a lot of loaded responses that makes faulty and ambiguous assumptions.

If you see me post on here I have always conducted myself with respect for women, even when I disagree with a viewpoint, no different than my mindset and approach in the real world.

I'm still bemused by some of the loaded statements you use when someone disagrees with your views on this subject.

It doesn't automatically imply they deem women as less than or are to be disrespected or entitled to lesser treatment. Not everyone is a misogynistic, chauvinist pig bent on dominating women.

Shh, don't say it too loud bro, its Oppression Olympics. Heaven forbid that its the stone, cold truth.

So much so that those beating the drums of oppression cannot even address it with a straight face and rather utilize generic fluff statements.

I'm still waiting to hear this "privilege" black men have in American society.

Can anyone list them for me, I would love to be enlightened about it.

 

IF it was a simple topic then there would be equality. The president wouldn't be treated like a second class citizen (the President!)..women would be paid the SAME amount of money for The same amount of work...feminists wouldn't be feminists because they wouldn't have to be..and TDK could hail a taxi in NYC in under 2 minutes.

But it's NOT..hence the continual conversation between GQ and TDK.

Wanting equality is awesome. I would like equality. But that's NOT the world we live in.

Wishing for it as the situation stands is like standing in the middle of a battle field and singing Lennon songs.

Ignoring the reality for a fantasy gets nothing accomplished now.

People have to see people AS PEOPLE for anything to change.

God I hate this thread.

 

And there u have it ladies and gents

 

I definitely didn't. Honest dialogue is so important. We need it otherwise resentment builds. I enjoy DB's posts. It makes me reexamine and challenges my view points and allows me to strengthen and reaffirm what I know to be true as well exposes me to truths I may not have been aware of

 

I didn't say you did.

There are a number of posters that I won't directly address. This member happens to be one. Unless I'm directly addressed by said person.

Unreasonable people are not to be reasoned with therefore I (mostly) choose not to engage in it.

As is usual..I'm pretty much sticking up for your side of the argument..that being that it does need to be discussed.