Feminism and Misandry in Today's Society...

So, because Andrae doesn't see it....it doesn't exist. So, the conversation is moot with you. It doesn't' matter what anyone shows you- nevermind the ladies that are telling you we are familiar with it, we see it -because YOU don't, it doesn't matter. OK. Well, carry on.


This argument about women having it so good compared to X country. Fuck that. It's the USA... aren't we supposed to be the greatest country on earth? Aren't we supposed to be famous for equal rights and equality and all of that? So why aren't we even treating our people fairly? PEDESTALS?! Seriously?

If women are on SUCH a pedestal in this country, why is there still rape and domestic violence - in higher numbers - than against men? Hmm?? Why does the Department of Justice have a specific department for dealing with Violence Against Women? Why are there women's shelters to protect these pedestal-balancing ladies from the men who surely would never hurt them, right? Why are so many women killed each year from those same men?

If women are on such a PEDESTAL, why are we only making about 23% of what a man makes in the same job for the same education with the same skills? Why isn't it equal? Hell, if we are on such a goddamn pedestal, why aren't we making more than men with that logic? I tell you why - because it's ignorance...and it's sexism. Plain and simple

The thing people miss about feminism...it's not about saying that if I hit you, you can hit me back. It's about the playing field being FAIR. For too many Americans, the concept of fairness and the concept of quid pro quo have been interchangeable. They do not mean the same thing. Fair means that I have the same opportunity as you to do something. That currently does not exist. It's so subtly woven into the fabric of this country, people eat, sleep, and breath it every day. "Can you lift that sweetie?" Cat calls on the streets. "Don't wear short skirts or you might get raped, and if you do, you totally deserve it." Men fighting over women in any sense... as if she isn't capable of making a decision of whether or to she wants to be with one or the other -as if one has ownership over her. Is it exclusive to men? No. It's just more prevalent. These are the things we teach our girls in the most subtle ways by the way we react to and treat women in our society.

The reason people even still talk about feminism is because we are still trying to fight these issues. It means that in country with a culturally masculine society, I should not have to consider if the outfit I am wearing is too this or too that - just that it is professional and looks nice, but not too nice - and my boobs shouldn't look too perky, and I shouldn't wear the wrong shoes, or the wrong jewelry, or the wrong shade of freaking lipstick - otherwise, someone might get the wrong impression of me.

I shouldn't have to even have a discussion as to whether my rights are being trampled and not have someone take my word for it. It's not a question. It's a fact.

http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/upload/simpletruthaboutpaygap1.pdf

 

And you see NOTHING wrong with the fact that white men are still the highest paid people, and everyone else comes in after? Why shouldn't everyone be paid equally for equal work? Wouldn't that make more sense?

Why is this even a debate?

 

I didn't say that I don't see anything wrong with it, just that it's what I read and what statistics show. As a woman, why would I agree with someone else making more money than me, just because the "someone else" is a man? I do agree everyone should be paid equally.

 

OK thanks for clarifying, because that's what I was trying to understand. People bring this factoid up all the time, and it's like 'yes, so because WW make more on the dollar to a WM than men and women of other races, we should stop complaining?' I don't know. I want everyone to live in a happy land of equality without suffering. It's the hippy in me.

 

Well, when you put it THAT way...

Pretty fucking impressive post, Huntress.

 

Its not easy being a man, understanding what the woman expect today. I give you guys that. Some women want the door, the chair.... etc and some women get offended.
Some women think the first date should be on the man, and after that split, some women want the first date split and then want the man to pay if they stay together and some want it all to be payed by the man.. and then, some want to split everything. I am the latter one but maybe not so much for any higher reason than that I dont want to owe anyone anything (got that from my mom) and that could be pride, and that may not be so good.

Its confusing out there both for women and men in the dating world w all the different norms and different expectations we have today.. Back in the 50's it was one expectation for men and one for women.. we had very few belongings, clothes etc.. now when women have gotten more of a freedom, it has come w a price. And no, I dont want the 50s back. That era also had its price, for both men and women.

Anything we want comes w a price, whatever it is... enough yoda-ism lol.

I usually have this general discussion early on of "expectations", tell me what is non negotiable and irks you w women and its easier for me to adjust, accept or move on - and vice versa. I am a straight shooter and appreciate the same back.

 

Thanks, Bliss.

Most of the night I was replying on this thread from my phone from JFK...I am finally home now and got it all out. lol Well, most of it.

 

Co siggy. Bloody brilliant post

 

Jen stop using my real name thanks. I've asked you not to on more than one occasion.
I never said it didn't occur it just doesn't make sense on a business level. Sorry if I'm using logic to approach the issue.
And women don't make 23% of males but I get that it was probably a typo but didn't want anyone reading this later to get the wrong impression.
You obviously see this from an emotional stand point and it has nothing to do with you being female but you can tell by the tenor of your writing but in terms of the article you provided I found several things wrong with it.
Just using median average earnings is an unfair litmus for fairness in pay gaps. Even though they later explain the difference in choices that men and women make simply stating that women make 77% of what men make paints a limited picture.
They cover the fact that men professions dominated by men and women pay differently but they kind of gloss over it and it makes a majority of the impact in the pay difference. Men are more likely to occupy positions in engineering, computer programming, and firefighting in comparison to the jobs women normally take such as nursing, teaching, and social work. Those jobs in of themselves account for a large income gap. Engineers make twice what nurses make same for firefighters and teacher as well as Computer programmers and social workers(rough estimate not going for exact accuracy)
There is also the "motherhood penalty" comment. In this day and age motherhood is a choice if you don't want to be out of the work force and lose experience and possible chance for advancement don't become a mother. Its not men keeping you down and penalizing you its matter of experience and knowledge of a field. Should a doctor with 2 years experience expect the same pay as a doctor with 15?
As far as getting raises I will concede to the cultural norms that make it difficult to ask for more. As a black person I've felt like wow I'm to just have a job so you don't really fight for what you worth as much but that's a mindset thing not business practice.
As far as the violence against women thing that could be a thread all by itself I'm not going to touch that one for now.
As far as the pedestal comment Iggy made to stir shit up. We do live in a culture where women as a whole are untouchable in comedy, where acts of violence against them is horrendous but when it happens to man its treated as comedy case in point the guy whose wife cut off his penis and threw it in the garbage disposal. We do still operate under and assumption where men are to treat women like ladies without any obligations on the men. Again case in point dude on the bus who got hit by a woman and wasn't expected to hit her back just because she was a girl. Two men regardless of size could have wailed on each other and it wouldn't have been met with the same scrutiny.
Just my thoughts.

Late edit:

As far as what you wear and how it affects the way men treat you. Women wear clothes more for other women than for men. Women seem to be the ones judging more on that than men do.

 

It wasn't a typo. 23% of what men make. Read it and weep.

And you tried to tell me I was being emotional. Thanks for proving my point. I stopped reading there.

You never said anything to me about your real name. My bad. Sorry.

 

I see what you're saying here TDK... but disagree with the motherhood comment.

After I graduate, I don't want to lose a chance at advancement because of becoming pregnant/ deciding to have a family. Yes, I can understand where the setback happens (from the business perspective), but considering the emotional perspective... I don't want to miss out on being a mother just because I'm working. Emotionally, I don't think it's a fair decision to expect someone to have to make.

In a sense here, it IS the men holding women down, because typically who's right at the top, the CEO's? Men. (I've actually read another article somewhere, that I should find... that stated that most women do NOT want to be CEO's anyways. They're happy in positions they have, or would be happy in upper management, but not as the head of a company.) Typically, there's less consideration for the women because the men do not have a similar experience. To be at the top, means being career driven... how many focus on their families and REALLY know what women need? It might be an oversight, not an intentional act, but still...

Like I said, business wise, it makes sense. Considering emotions though, it doesn't seem fair to expect someone to decide between motherhood and gaining higher rankings at work.

 

I'm going to let you slide on how late it is because the actual number is 77% of what men make. 23% LESS

Dude you were being emotional. You rarely take an academic approach to these type of discussion. Can't wait to read your dissertation

 

I thank Feminism for giving me some freedoms as a woman, but I think radical/extreme Feminism ruined and broke down the American family structure.

I can't see hating the opposite sex so much, so I don't agree.

 

Its not fair that everyone doesn't eat or live in adequate homes or has equal access to affordable healthcare.
But in that situation it makes sense. Look at this way do you think its fair for someone to get as much as you have for doing far less work?
Motherhood has it rewards but show me a reward worth having that doesn't require sacrifice.

 

Miss you posting on here as much. You're one of the best on here hands down:smt023

 

Child, please. You always say that when a woman agrees w you.

 

Aww, thank you, TDK

but LMAO!

 

This chick right here.
You been chilling in Compton again I see lol.
And how is that different from the rest of you power puff girls.
You people NEVER disagree on anything ever lol

 

Either way here, it'd make sense to balance the pay rates, white men making a little less, everyone else making a little more.

Poverty does have a function in society though. If there weren't poorer people, there would be no one to do the jobs that the rest of us see as undesirable. We can't all be rich CEO's, right? You're right, rewards do come with sacrifice. Too bad the rewards of motherhood didn't actually pay. Men can take a sacrifice of putting more time into their work, and get a reward of more money.
Women do the same, she either has to decide between being a mom, or money... different types of rewards.


I guess it depends on the person though, I don't think I can say too much on this. I'm living in DC on about... $800-900 a month and I'm perfectly content. If I was living on that amount with a kid.... different story, and then I'd actually be working more to make enough to cover the additional expenses added.
I'm not the type that wants the 6 figure income. I hate the inequality of the system in general, but to me... as long as there's enough to simply provide for myself (and kids, if they ever enter the equation ), I'm content.

 

I'm sure my mom would say me and my brother were a much better reward than making more money. I'd feel the same way if I had a kid. That's the final frontier for me. I hope I can have a family with my chick and just watch them grow and be happy. That would be worth 77% of what I would make if I didn't have them but that's me.