Absolutely disgusting inhumanity inflicted on these women.

Do you fear that if you leave any man or turn him down he will throw acid in your face and disfigure and/or blind you or take your life, with the court system giving him a slap on the wrist because you offended his male ego.

Yes there are controlling men of all backgrounds, including those who are abusive and violent, but the difference is does a woman have choices and an outlet to turn to to leave and not be forced to stay in such relationships for religious and social purposes.

The divorce rate as we all know is very high in Western society, so clearly women have the option of walking away and use that choice or it wouldn't be high.

As far as woman as pieces of meat etc, what you are talking about in rather generalized terms is a negative aspect of a free society and cannot ever begin to approach the degradation and inhumanity inflicted on these women by savage brutes who see women as mere property to be controlled at every step.

The difference is in Western society women have choices, they can speak their minds, if they want to walk buck ass naked they can, if they want to cover up they can, they can make their voices be heard and can make their own choices about decisions in their life.

No one has to force them to do these things, they don't have to be in fear of honor killings for violating some religious edict and family honor, they don't have to fear going to school to acquire knowledge.

When you speak about relationships and children, etc. if you think the personal relationship between two people that may break down where they can both walk away is comparable to this savagery these women endure for wanting to leave a man or not wanting to marry him or get an education, then you ought to reexamine that.

Ironically that statement about "pieces of meat" is one of the arguments that folks in those other parts of the world use, they say, Western women walk around naked, exposing themselves and sleeping with strangers, the divorce rate is sky high, its all about money and greed in Western society, etc.

At least we control our women's honor and virtue they say. So see how that works when you make such a statement, it fails to incorporate the choices women have in Western society today. Think about that at a deeper level SA.

Would you feel better if Western men were the final arbiters on how women dress, how they carry themselves in society, unable to have a divorce, division of genders in social settings, who they are allowed to speak to, etc. I doubt it.

 

GQ Brotha I am with you...Such injustice.. Having acid thrown in your face because of a family dispute or for turning a guys marriage proposal down is absolutely savage, almost surreal which is why I clicked the link and read their stories..

I watched the movie 'The Stoning of Soraya M.' I almost couldn't watch it all the way through yet was compelled to keep watching due to the fact this sort of thing still occurs through out the world... Sickens and saddens me.

 

That is the thing that gets me these women almost have no choice but to say yes or face a similar fate from any man who takes offense to her rejection of his approach of her.

They have to worry if they turn him down how he may react. Not much of a choice.

It is about having the ability to choose your destiny, something these women didn't have.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Women are put on a pedestal over here in the States. They have more rights than ever. Women in the Middle East have basically the same rights as farm animals.

 

Saintaugusta and GQ Brotha you both are correct on your statements on how women are treated in the U.S.

Women in America are treated like shit and are controled. Just not at the level as you see in foreign countries.

Women here are beaten, raped, sexually harrassed, degraded, etc.

The political climate in this country is slowly steering in a direction to put women back in the home barefoot and pregnant.

Yes, women do have a choice to get away from a violent relationship thru divorce or court order, but men usually benefit from divorce in the long term unlike women if children are involved.

Men in our soceity control the relationship while dating and married. Marriage is set up here so that men benefit from it more than women.

Yes, wome have it easy where they can walk around with their ass and tittys almost exposed, but we all know what the outcome of that is, go to the Mens Locker forum to see.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Very wisely said, blackbull. Thank you.

And by the way I have watched the Stoning of Soraya M. TWICE because it was so important to me to truly incorporate and understand not only the localized and extremist ideas at work there, but the UNIVERSAL themes at play - group pressure, cultural morals, female jealousy delighting in the suffering of other women, sons being taught to be calloused against their own mothers and pressured into "being a man", profiting in the death or suffering of another, sheer ambivalence, apathy, and turning a blind eye. Men who could have and WOULD have wanted to do something didn't out of fear of what other men would think of them. Also.... "slut-shaming" and spreading false rumors. These are ALL universal. I fully understand the parallels.

Just because we have a supposed "choice" doesn't make the ramifications of the cruelty of society and a patriarchal society at that, hurt any less. It might not be as visible as an acid bath, but it hurts in many ways that you cannot see. I am a living example of that. I see the story of Soraya M. played out every day, in small ways, minus the "actual" throwing of stones.

Her courage in the face of death - her knowledge of her own innocence, inspired me, as did her aunt's loyalty. They were saints.

 

CB, I watched it, too. I was so upset that I sobbed through it. I felt like I owed it to her to watch it. It was one of the most powerful things I have ever seen.

 

Absolutely. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best and appalling at worst. They wish they had out freedoms and would trade with us in a heartbeat. Man, I have said it for years I PRAISE GOD I was born in a Western country. We have it so good because like it or not, MEN rule the world and men in general here do appreciate their better half.

 

Women here are treated like shit?? Compared to whom, exactly? We actually are not. We live mostly normal lives, like most western women. We may pick some assholes to get involved with, but we are afforded basic human rights just like our male counterparts.

Because we aren't talking about men making out better in divorce, or being oogled at in our shorts, we are talking about TRUE human suffrage here. There are 14 yr old girls in Somalia who are raped IN MARRIAGE or forced into pregnancy and their fistulas are torn. That means when their piss collects, it leaks and they are outcasted by their husbands. Left to live in misery.

Women who in childbirth get no medical care, no pain killers, often delivering their child themselves while walking miles to get help.

We have some nerve bitching about our rights here.

 

Every society has abuse, it is how it is dealt with and what rights and outlet do the women have that then has to come into play.

There are consequences and repercussions for those actions on average in our society, it cannot be explained through religion, through family honor, through social values forced upon women, void of their voices.

Women in the West fought for their rights to be acknowledged and I salute them for that.

Like I stated earlier this notion of "pieces of meat" is a misleading tenet often used by those in societies like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan as to why women should be "protected" as they term it.

So my question to the ladies then would be do you want a pious man to protect your helpless self from the ills of society as long as you are willing to relinquish your rights to voice your own opinion, accept religious dogma as to how you carry yourself, be recognized as subservient to your partner in order to maintain harmony and risk life and limb should you want to leave the relationship.

Oh and if I get bored of you in a marriage instead of divorce will you let me marry another woman as a second wife as long as I'm willing to "take care of you".

How many women in the West would tolerate these things.

In free societies we will encounter unsavory things, but that is a part of the choice that we have for better or worse.

No one should have to enforce moral principles upon us at the expense of freedom.

 

:smt043:smt043:smt043

As someone who is very culturally aware I think people need to really go and examine these societies and the practices in depth when remarking on these matters.

How many women have the West sentenced to death for committing adultery.

I don't see anyone cutting off the clitoris of Western women in FGM

(I saw a piece yesterday on Somalia, where a woman stated her sister died from FGM and 90% of the young girls at a school she opened for women had FGM already performed on them)

A man cannot go out and engage in bigamy in our society without being punished in the courts.

Homosexuals have next to no rights in these societies.

Rapists and pedophiles are the lowest of low in the prison system in our society. The prison has to sometimes keep them segregated in prison for their own safety from other convicts.

In some of these places a woman is raped and the victim is viewed as offending family honor by not stopping it. Meanwhile the rapist gets off lightly.

How often do we hear of "virginity checks" in our society.

A Western woman gets the choice in her partner, no one has to arrange her marriage, no one has to force her to marry someone she doesn't like, no one gets to make her a prisoner of an unhappy relationship.

She has the capacity and ability to make her personal choices around these matters. She is not inhibited by social taboos that defaults her actions to "what is said must be done".

This notion of the over-sexualization in the West is a very narrow scope of the bigger issue and cannot ever begin to equate to places where women lack the most basic fundamental rights that revolve around social components such as health, education and basic equality in how they are viewed as women.

By no means is Western society perfect but wonder how many women would trade lives with the women in those societies. :smt017

 

Every thing you said is true, and like I pointed out, there are some variables.

And like you said, it ain't perfect here.

But like I stated earlier and you too, woman in America who are brought up in a American culture, are not subjected to the level of violence that is seen in foreign countries. Like Bliss said, they are very lucky and fortunate.

 

That is the most important factor for the sake of the thread. Violence against women.

Don't get me wrong domestic violence continues to happen everywhere, rapes happen everywhere, including our society of course, none of these things can be argued against.

I feel however at the core of women having the freedom to make her own personal decisions that impact her life is where the great gulf of separation takes place.

For example if a white woman from a rich family wants to marry a poor black guy and her family disapprove of it. She may have a lot of issues to face but certainly death is not one of the repercussions. She may be shunned and a breakdown in the relationship with her family may take place, but she is unlikely to be maimed or killed in the name of family honor.

Which leads us back to the violence aspect that is important for this discussion.

I'm a stickler for zero violence against women and that is why the original topic of the acid being thrown in the faces of women got me riled up. All because they refused the advances of these men for marriage or wanted to leave them.

Any man who dares to do that in our society would face harsh consequences in a court of law.

 

Like I pointed out earlier, being angry at what they are doing should be directed toward our Govt.

Our taxes are being used to allow this shit to go on. We keep electing the same idiots into office who sign bills every year exporting billions of US taxpayer money into these country's.

We have been in Afghanistan for 10 years and shit still has not changed and over a Trillion dollars has been spent in that dust bowl.

Ridiculous.

 

That is the thing bro, we cannot change these cultures as outsiders, because of the very nature that we are outsiders.

It is for the women and men as well, in large numbers, who are brave enough and dare to speak up and say enough in their own society. Until that happens things will carry on as is.

The first thing they will say about the West is that is it is their culture, their way of life and who are we to interfere, etc.

More troubling is our government knows these things but continue to play the game to maintain influence in these regions.

So they will keep sending the money for numerous reasons, but mostly to try and buy/maintain influence in these places from people who despise America. Akin to a kind of tribute payment to further their agenda.

 

Women have it MADE in America. If they think they have it rough then go to the Middle East and see how many rights you have

 

Us in the Western world are often pretty naive and run amok with political correctness when seeing remarking on these issues.

I remember the old phrase that even the poor in America are not like the poor in the "developing world"

In those places there are no government services to turn to help you out socially.

You are on your own, come what may. You have to hustle to eat, literally.

Western women would be in for a culture shock if they had to permanently live in these places, where being a woman automatically means a man gets first say by default.

Lets just say women have to "know their place" in most of these societies based on social customs.

 

As we've said on this site in the past - it isn't the oppression Olympics. The fact is, in THIS country, American women are not treated equally. There is no sense in comparing my experience to a woman in the Middle East, because we are different, culturally. Are they treated horribly in their own countries and cultures? Absolutely.

Are American women treated like shit in our own country and culture? Absolutely. But to compare them is silly.

Right, which is why I don't think there's any value in saying 'Oh, you don't like it in the USA as a woman? Go to Iran! HAHA!'.... No. What's so freakin' difficult about everyone being equal, everywhere? Why do we have to play 'Compare and Win' with everyone? We don't. The only thing we can say in a blanket form is that women are not treated well anywhere. There is work to be done no matter where you're living and no matter what your cultural experience.

The fact that we still have male politicians here fighting over what I'm allowed to do with my uterus is just as much a form of war and oppression as telling me I have to leave the house with an escort, and victim-blaming rape victims is just as heinous as telling someone they must cover themselves from head-to-toe in a burqua -it's just a different experience. Sure, I can pretty much do what I want in this country, but if you listen to the people in power, I'm not smart enough to make decisions about my health, and my brain is less valuable than a man's, because I still make less to his dollar.

There's no point in these tee totaling discussions - I will never live in the Middle East, and most of these women will never live in the United States. The goal should be to improve the experience of women in all countries, irrespective of who might 'have it worse' than the other. Simple.

 

Is there a country, in which you feel women are treated as they should be? How are women treated like shit in this country? This is not a point of debate, I am all ears.

 

Sweden is a far more equal country than any other country in the world.

I'd say they're an example of how women should be treated.

In America, women are blamed for being raped, blamed for being victims of violence, treated like second-class citizens, are told that we shouldn't have access to the health care we need, can't make decisions about what to do with our own bodies, and still can't earn the same as a man in the same field with the same experience. We still only earn about $.78 to every $1 a man makes.

If you're missing that, then you probably want to take some extra time each day to follow the news and catch up on some of this stuff. It's likely that you never thought about it before, or you're a man - I don't know you, so I have no idea -but you should really try to get educated on how women are treated in the United States, especially if you live in VA.