voter suppression laws--via the GOP

I agree that everyone should participate in an election. I think its one of the greatest rights we have in America. I think you can only help those who want to help themselves. If people want to vote, we have plenty of ways to get them to cast their vote early. Or there are specific action groups out there who work to assist people with the voting process. You only get out what you put in. I don't condemn them at all, but I don't think the Republicans should be condemned for saying you need an ID either.

 

You are aware that the various election laws are designed to pose logistical difficulties for third parties, both right and left? Requirements of a certain number of signatures (difficult to collect if you have little money, regardless of the quality of your message), prohibitive filing costs (FL is notorious for this, also a barrier). I have worked with legislators from both parties and they both share a hostility toward the development of 3rd parties, and, since they are the only ones who get elected (with few exceptions like Bernie Sanders), they have sole control over electoral laws. Try removing those barriers, and you'd see parties that truly speak to all segments of society becoming active. Even your party would benefit, because all the latent racists would be free to form their own organizations, like the National Front has in Europe, which would help Republicans purge their ranks and eliminate charges of racism.

And I agree that people give excuses, but just because they're excuses doesn't mean they're not valid. That's why I never use the "I did it, so why don't they?" line of reasoning. You and I (as well as many people on this forum, probably) have intellectual resources that many people who are beaten down by life don't have. Having them fall prey to the pressures of life, shouldn't cause them to lose out. It should cause us to put in the extra effort to keep them engaged and involved.

Many of these groups have been barred from participating entirely based on mistakes or wrongdoing by a limited number of actors (think ACORN). There isn't as much support for GOTV as there used to be. And early voting is under attack nationwide as a part of the larger vote-minimizing strategy. I'll post some articles about the FL debacle currently underway to illustrate.

 

Who said they were? It seems to me you have a habit of casting judgement here, as you did with me yesterday when you just assumed I am firmly in the Obama camp because I was pointing out some of the seemingly bias spin in your arguments in this thread.

 

Believe me, I understand having certain social programs are beneficial for people with hard times. My wife and I used WIC when we had our baby. I also understand how your pride takes a hit and you want nothing more than to have a job to go everyday. Now that I have my career and would consider ourselves middle class, I still feel like I'm the working poor. So you don't need to send me a link...i'm living it! That's the reason I want to send Obama on his merry way.

 

If you're asking if Democrats and Republicans both use certain vote minimizing strategies? Yes. I'm sure they do.

But do you think that showing ID is fundamentally wrong in the voting process?

 

jameswilson flat out owning people left & right once again.

 

Good luck with all of that then.

You do realize that Rmoney/Ryan don't support programs like wic?

 

I'm not the one casting judgement here. Your last post was characterizing me as someone who was not a "caring Republican" who was apathetic to poor individuals.

 

Oh Really? Hmmmm. Too bad you can't claim the same thing on any topics.

 

Gracias Iggy!

I better not say that though...they might accuse of me pandering for the latino vote.

 

And? What about your judgement of me yesterday? Just ignore that right? Fine I'm the bad guy. Have no problems owning it. It's called taking responsibility for one's actions.

 

Let's not confuse cutting funding with not supporting the program. The Democrats always paint Republicans as evil people who don't care because they say we need to make cuts. Things have to be cut when you're in debt. You can't reduce the debt without cuts, we don't live in a magical world. Who in the world would be against providing food for babies. When you're broke, sometimes you have to say no to your kids when they ask for stuff. It's the tough thing to do and its a hard thing to do.

 

I think showing ID is fundamentally wrong, because my views on the vote are that it's your right as a human being, period. I believe that everyone human beings are, they should be allowed a say in the reality in which they live, regardless of citizenship status. But that's just me.

For the purposes of this conversation, I'm only saying that if they're going to require it, they (the government) should make sure that everyone gets it. Just like they manage to ensure that everyone gets an SSN. And the laws currently being deployed that allow NRA cards as ID, but not student IDs, are blatantly partisan. The people should not be required to jump through additional hurdles. If they want to arrest you, they have data-sharing techniques to ensure they can identify you. If they want your taxes, they have data-sharing techniques to ensure you can't evade them. But when it comes time to exercise your power over them, it's up to you do it and good luck. Unfair.

 

No, I'll totally own up to thinking you were liberal yesterday. I took a lot of your comments to be left leaning. If I offended you then I apologize. But I never attacked your character yesterday.

 

How was I attacking your character when you constantly are posting things that make you come across as apathetic to the circumstances of poor individuals? No different that you reading my comments and thinking me to be left leaning?

I was not offend by what you said. Just pointing out how some things can come across to others especially when you seem to only look at things from one side rather than take in the big picture.

 

OK, well we disagree on the right to vote thing. I think every US citizen should have the right to vote here in the US. But I don't believe illegal aliens should have the right to vote here.

Voters can use their SSN to show at the polls. But obviously they cannot issue drivers licenses to everybody because not everyone can operate a motor vehicle.

Showing your ID is necessary because voting isn't done online through a secure network. Since people go to polls, ID is the only way to verify that you are who you say you are.

Why aren't people complaining about having to show ID for everything else then? Why is it a big issue for voting?

 

Totally agree that things can be taken out of context. I hope there's no hard feelings about my comments yesterday and none taken with your comment today.

My point is that the reality of our current economic situation requires tough decisions and hard cuts. I think Republicans, in general, are painted as apathetic towards poor people because of requesting these cuts.

But if you look at most Americans who are in debt, we don't get to print more money and rack up more debt. We have to make cuts in our spending and figure out how to earn more money. My wife and I have to budget every month and follow it closely to make sure we get by. The President should have to do the same...in my opinion.

 

My views about human beings voting are my own philosophical principles, but I am only supporting and talking about legal citizens voting in this conversation. In FL only a photo ID is being accepted, and SSN cards have no photo. I agree about not allowing voting online because people can vote more than once and accuracy is difficult to determine. My complaint about it for voting versus other activities is that I view voting as a fundamental right to every human being, like access to clean air and water. Driving a car, owning a firearm, attending a university, etc, are activities that, while I believe people should have access to, require a higher level of scrutiny.

 

I view voting as a right and a privilege for those who follow the law. For felons, I think they should lose that right when they commit a crime. There are requirements to participate. If you can't follow the gun laws...then you don't get a gun. If you don't pass your classes...you don't attend a university. If you don't follow the voting laws...you can't vote.

 

Something cannot simultaneously be a right AND a privilege. It's an either/or proposition. If it's a right, no one should be able to abridge it. If it's a privilege, it can be taken away at will. Having a say in the world in which you live is more fundamental than a privilege. The idea of the vote as a privilege went the way of limiting the vote to property owners, white males, and the like.

The only justification for losing your voting rights (arguably) in my view is first degree murder, because you have done that for which there is no solution. And even then, the theory of punishment implies that once you have been punished, your punishment should be over. Period. If you're not in jail paying a debt to society, you should be allowed to vote.