What's your View??

Yeah! What she said.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't be entitled to our opinions when they are used to create in justices, dehumanize or promote oppression.

Looking back in history, opinions are exactly what kept women and blacks from voting or being equal to their white male counterparts in the workplace. Opinions are the reason blacks were strung from trees or dragged down the block while attached to the back of some good ol boys pickup truck. Opinions are the reason 6-million Jews were killed by the Nazi regime.

Bigotry is really nothing more than the direct result of acting on oppressive opinions.

So yes, we are allowed our opinions; however we should be conscious and honest enough with ourselves to be able to identify our stances that are oppressive to others.

 

Whether you agree with homosexuality or not (whatever the fuck that means).... equality is equality. Equality is the very simple ideal that all people should have the same rights regardless their sex, age, ethnicity, religion or orientation.

The belief that someone should not be afforded the same rights that you are says that you feel that you are somehow above them or better than them. Quite frankly, equality is not a matter of your opinion or agree'ance with an issue.

Equal rights = Equal rights. Plain and simple.

 

Well stated. And exactly how I feel.

 

If you strip me of my opinion, then I own nothing.

 

He's not implying that. You're free to speak your mind, no matter how ignorant your position is. But ignoring facts based on conviction would not allow the world to move forward and progress. There are inalienable truths and logical facts in the world, but somehow in a more opinionated world, people like to hear themselves talk out their asses rather than listen to what's provided in a factual manner.

This is why women's right, civil rights, and (now) gay rights have been fought. The opinions of others have been challenged and trumped with facts, thus progress has moved forward. There's no oppression of expressing your mind, but there are consequences to your right to free speech.

 

The thing I find most annoying is that liberals want to criticize those of us who hold religious and/or conservative moral views for being "narrow-minded", but fail to realize that they are just as narrow-minded in not allowing us to have a different POV without attacking us for it. And before you jump on me for that, THINK about it.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges, dear. It's not a matter of you holding conservative positions as much as demeaning those based on ignorant assumptions. And a greater offense to exercise that bigoted worldview is to vote on legislature (unconstitutional and un-American ideas) to prohibit those to truly be part of that American Dream.

And liberals like myself, we just ask ourselves "Do these conservatives, nay reactionaries, have the audacity to tell others who they can't marry and who isn't allowed to get abortions?" Again, when facts present itself, it's usually drowned with conviction.

 

Ches, I'm not attacking your moral views nor accusing you of being narrow-minded. Without making this a religious debate, I'm trying to appeal more toward your humanity and the very basic concept of equality. Remember, the same bible that is now being used in the moral debate of homosexuality was once used to justify slavery and to hold women as not being mans equal.

Here is something to truly think about. Does your moral code disregard equality in favor of your own prejudices?

"Every person is a unique creation of His, and He loves each one"

PS: I'm not a liberal.

 

Well said, this one and the one before it.

 

This.

 

So all you are, your whole entire existence is held together by your opinions?
Wow.

 

Jaisee, I wasn't directing my comment at you, specifically. I'm at work and can't take time at the moment to answer your post, but I wanted to at least say that.

 

No. But pretty much everything else that is mine: my home, my clothes, my job, my car, my family, etc., can be taken from me by someone or something. My opinion is pretty much the only thing that can't be taken away. Well, maybe that could be too if something happened that I'm no longer able to form one. But my opinion is one thing I should be able to own without fear. Now, whether I act on that opinion is a whole 'nother ball of wax....

 

The point of this is that you can freely think and hold to what you believe in. No one says people shouldn't think for themselves or have convictions. If you stand for nothing then you fall for anything.

The problem that those of us here have and are trying to get across is that in cases of equality..gay rights, woman's rights, it was these people's opinions and attitudes that kept these groups of people suppressed. The reason Christianity gets dragged into it is because the bible has been used for millennia to hate, dehumanize and hold down the freedom of others. That isn't an individual Christian fault. That is Christianity as a whole failing to do what all good religions should do: if it makes you a better person then practice it. Again, this is not about Ches who reads and follows the bible and loves God. That's about Christianity's failings as a whole.

I could not have put it any better than jaisee. So I won't even try. But that's the essence of the whole issue when you strip everything else.

 

I can't go back through the thread right now, but isn't that what Stizzy did? He expressed an opinion and the reason behind it. As I read through the thread, it seemed to me like he was being ganged up on for his opinion. Yet I don't recall that he tried to force it on anyone else.

 

Once again, issues like these aren't about the individual him/herself. Stizzy doesn't craft laws and rules that impact a gay couples rights to get legally married or a woman's right to obtain birth control. The people that make these laws tend to be overwhelmingly to the right and very Christian and they make these laws based on what they feel is right for them and then the laws get passed in mainstream society (by other people who believe that ppl shouldn't be legally married or obtain an abortion) because THEIR religion says so.

That's the disconnect for me anyway. You don't believe in gay marriage? Fine. A woman shouldn't have an abortion or get access to reliable birth control in order to avoid one? Awesome. But I myself think both of those things should be allowed because who am I to deny any other human of their free choice.

The USA needs to keep their laws and their bible out of the bedroom so long as everything that goes on there is consensual.

 

I know a lot of gay people personally and to me it's totally normal to meet their significant other of the same sex.
My opinion is that love should have no limits and borders.
For me the skin color, the religion or the sex shouldnt matter when it comes to love and marriage.
It's all about the connection of two hearts.
If two people love each other and they want to spend their life with each other, let them get married so they can have the same rights that other couples have.
In Germany it's legal already and a coworker of mine is already married to his man that he knows for more than 12 years now.

But Germany is way more free spirited and liberal when it comes to equal rights.
Even Berlin's mayor is gay and it's no secret

 

I love meeting Americans that have come to Canada to get married, gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Yaay for love!!! :smt057:smt057:smt057:smt049

 

Hmm, Canada's pretty much the same when it comes to LGBT Marriage Equality. Some provinces don't allow it and others do.