Friends Versus Lovers, Marriage Partners and S.O.

I'm not sure this topic has been discussed on the forum in the past. I often think about this issue in light of my own experiences in relationships. So, I wondered what others think about this as well.

I've found that it's easy for people to have friends, to be thought of as truly wonderful people among their friends. Often people extend themselves with friends and act in quite loving and caring ways toward them.

However, the interpersonal relationships of a man and woman can be a different matter. In relationships issues of compromise, loyally, pride, and specifically insecurities rooted in the past, from childhood or other relationships, seem to cause issues. One or both people in relationships can set up barriers to the communication needed to sustain and encourage growth and emotional commitment. Its often the case that people don't accept the foibles of their partners, as much as tolerating them.

In the end, my sense is that relationships are much more complex that friendships, even though people derive so much from their friendships. Perhaps, it's because those challenges don't exist and people are more able or willing to carry on meaningful friendships.

Are these distinctions important, meaningful or even real? I'm curious to know how others react to and feel about these comments?

 

Apparently I have no clue how to tell since one of my so called dates just informed me she invited more people to come out with us lol.
The more the merrier right right? Lol

 

Sometimes women do that with men they're interested in because they're not sure they trust him. Especially if she thinks there is a chance he's a player and will try to sleep with her. It's a way to be vetted by the friends.

I did crap like that in my early 20s. I'm guessing that's how old she is, right?

 

Agreed. It is always astounding to me how folks can go out of their way to be loving, giving and solidly amazing friends and yet treat their intimate partners like shit. You'd think we'd want to be our best with the people we love the most.

 

Yeah 24

Never had that happen before. Her excuse is her friends love to check out men she's interested in. Just plain lame.

 

Lame but probably true. I hope you have eaten your Wheaties today! lol

 

Redbull baby redbull. First date at 4. I'm shaven and just need to pick out an outfit to iron.

 

Lol, guys don't do that kind of stuff.


Silly.

That kind of behavior would make me not want to go on the date.



Would you want to go on a first date with a bunch of random guys?

 

Is there credence then that perhaps it's more difficult, that people have to be more vulnerable, to open up and share the rawness of their own being, and that's harder? Plainly, many of those people have the capacity to love. It'll be interesting to see how people perceive this matter.

 

Well have fun. I will be jealous in silence

 

Agreed but she's 5'8 with a body that wont quit and she's ivy league educated. Aren't many of those around my neighborhood. Oh yeah she lives a few houses down from me. Location location location.

 

I'm not saying don't do it. For sure do it. Have fun!!

 

If it is important or has meaning to someone, then it's real to them, and that's likely the only opinion that will matter to them.

I think relationships of any type are subject to what people typically term 'baggage', whether they be platonic or romantic. I find very few people who don't measure others by those they've encountered in the past, particularly by those who disappointed or hurt them. However, I think when it's a romantic relationship that the baggage tends to be given more weight because the potential for hurt is amplified. Being hurt by a plantonic friend is not equivalent to being hurt by someone you care for romantically, to most people the pain is worse with the person you trusted with your heart. You can have deep personal connections in any friendship, but the connection that exists in a romantic relationship is just on a different level IMO. Obviously it's somewhat unique or it seems more people would consider more of their friends potential romantic partners, and 'being in the friend zone' wouldn't be a common occurrence. Romantic partners have something that makes you want to know them on that level.

I agree that communication appears to be difficult for a lot of people, I mean real communication. Again past experiences seem to tinge that, and every new person gets viewed through a historical perspective, which isn't fair to anyone. Getting someone to truly accept you as you are is just rare. I don't find that people accept or tolerate what you termed foibles, I find they want to change them, so some just play along until they can accomplish that. That's a pet peeve of mine, people are not makeovers waiting to happen or social experiments, they're human beings and if you can't love them the way they are, you should do everyone a favor and leave them alone. But I've heard too many people who size up potential partners according to their checklists and if someone scores say 7 out of 10, they just view that as 7 pros and 3 cons that they'll change later.

I personally think at the heart of nearly all failed relationships is the inability to be open, honest and consider someone else's wants/needs as important as your own. Too many people can't be honest with themselves, so why would you expect them to be honest with someone else? The self-preservation instinct seems to kick in as well, and that combined with ego can cause people to build barriers to ensure they don't get hurt, and to put themselves first. Love doesn't make sense, and I don't think it's supposed to, that's kinda the point. It's like science trying to explain religion... that's why they call it faith, there is no tangible explanation. Same thing with love, it's not supposed to be quantified, and scripted, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach. My sister recently ended a long-term relationship, and near the end she called me and told me she was making a list of pros and cons to help her decide whether to try to stick it out, I told her that she's trying to use logic to solve one of the few things that it cannot. Love and logic are often on opposite sides of the spectrum. I also told her that if I'm at the point where I need to make a pros and cons list, I already know the answer to the question.

 

I believe that relationships can offer such growth opportunities, the chance for self analysis. But, many people have so much fear of looking into that mirror, that they would rather entrench themselves and close themselves off to those things necessary for a healthy relationship, like communication.

Acceptance is so rare. Again, I think that people tend to overlook certain aspects of a person's character, personality, habits, whatever, in favor of that checklist. But, when they become stressed by the reality of the challenges that face partners in a real relationship, those factors become highlights and symbolic of all that wrong about those partners. Finding someone who you can accept, totally, is certainly an easier proposition.

Oh yes, ego and pride and fear. They combine to create a perfect storm of all the wrong things toward creating a deep and lasting relationship. My own believe is that if you can't think about your partner more often than you think about yourself, then you're probably overlooking, ignoring or not aware of your partner's needs in the relationship. I'll always look toward giving and hope that the reciprocation will be consideration in kind, while not maintaining a notion of quantifiable equality.

IMO, two people can come together, who have enough compatibility and chemistry, as long as they also are committed and loyal enough to devote the time and effort to do the work necessary for the relationship to prosper. But, it's increasingly rare to find these qualities in both partners, in my experience.

I often wonder if part of the problem is the barrage of marketing confronting people every day. We are told that we are all "entitled" to the best, regardless of what we bring to the table. We are told that we should expect it instantly, when the reality is that relationships take time and effort, and we're told that the person should unequivocally meet all our needs, when we know that happiness and completion starts with the individual.

 

It is more difficult, and I think, properly done, you do need to be more open and vulnerable. I also think there is an element of taking for granted the people you are closest to. It's easy to forget to say "I love you, and I choose to be with you" in the heat of everyday living. It's also easy to take out your frustrations with the world on the people you come home to - since it's sometimes impossible to respond to them "out there" you bring them home.

Vulnerability is very scary to me. I suppose my "I won't get involved with anyone seriously because of the MS" also gives me an excuse not to be vulnerable with anyone, and that's a sigh of relief. It's scary to be raw, to be totally open, because you're giving someone power to hurt you in a way that friends, no matter how close, will never have. It's giving someone the ability to judge your soul, so to speak.

Or maybe this is all just the vicodin talking. (See what I did there?)

 

Of course not, but some women, especially younger ones see it as a safety valve in case they decide they are not comfortable with the guy. They also see it as a way to 'buffer' and to get the input of friends on whether or not the guy is a good person.

 

It's quite the opposite for me Swirlman, communication is so much better for me in a relationship or someone I'm heavily interested in on a personal level. The traits you spoke of how people appear to be so loving, caring with other is a big reason why I don't have any friends because it appears that they are putting on a facade with a hidden agenda... :::sigh::: I have friend baggage, but I definitely see where you coming from observing others relationships from a distance.

If I was Dark Knight I would either drop that date or I'm going out purely for my own enjoyment at the expense of chick and her company.

 

Great, thoughtful post. Love is not the fairy tale romance, or the rom-com movie. It's holding your partner's head over the toilet while they vomit, it's silently sitting and holding them when they've had a loss. It's remembering in the heat of an argument that the damned whatever that's pissed you off isn't nearly as important as the love you share.

To me, it isn't so much thinking about my partner's needs as it is putting the relationship first. In a relationship there are really 3 entities. You, the partner and the relationship itself. If I put myself first, I'm leaving out the needs of the relationship and the partner. If I put my partner first always, I'm neglecting my own needs. If I put the relationship first, I'm balancing, or trying to balance my needs and my partner's needs in a way in which the relationship itself benefits.

 

I do think relationships can prompt self-analysis, and that's rarely a bad thing. As far as growth potential, I suppose self-analysis can lead to that, however I personally don't look at anyone else as offering the potential for me to grow. That to me is similar to people who say they're looking for someone to 'complete' them... if you aren't complete on your own, then you aren't likely to find that with someone else IMO. I also think that's not someone else's job, you need to learn to accept and be content as you are, or I think you will always feel something is lacking. If you have parts of your life, or your personality, or whatever, that you are dissatisfied with, then fix it, or at least try. People that just settle for less than what they want, or what they know will make them happy confuse me, alot. That's just fear or laziness IMO, they want the safest or easiest way through life... they may get it, but in the end I think they'll always be left wanting.

That's my approach as well. It's never about what's in it for me, though I find that other people have difficulty believing that. I approach people openly, with respect and genuine love, if that's what I'm feeling. The upside to that is I never have to question whether I've failed to be fair to them, and if they mistreat me then I know I didn't earn that. Doesn't necessarily make understanding relationships any easier, but if I know I did all I could, then at least my conscience is clear.

This is something I wouldn't have considered, and I really have difficulty fathoming that, as marketing is useless to me. I don't accept what anyone tells me, I always question, so that concept of societies influence on individual decision making is lost on me. I do see that it clearly works, or marketing budgets wouldn't be so astronomical, but I really don't understand why people can't just think for themselves. If someone is allowing what other people perceive, or suggest to dictate their personal lives, then they have no one to blame but themselves if that doesn't work out well. But I find people will rarely try to see how their own actions resulted in a negative outcome, it's so much easier to blame someone else, anyone else. As you said, taking a good honest look in the mirror is difficult for some to do.

 

That's the essence of what I was suggesting, that the fear results in relationship paralysis. But, by the same token, I view the promise of something exceptional, a deep, lasting and loving relationship, worth the effort. It does require stepping out, trusting and believing, often blindly, in the most positive outcome. Life experiences affect some so significantly that they can't get pasr those experiences to open up to the possibilities. Kind of a catch 22, isn't it?