European women really more "liberal" than US WW?

I have heard Canadian people are more liberal

 

LOL

 

It's hard for me to frame openness to an interracial relationship as either conservative or liberal. Its entirely too relative. I can't assume all that much about how conservative or liberal a woman is merely through their interest in a black guy. When it comes to society, family or friends, really it depends on how ladylike she can make "fuck off" sound.

 

american living in london

As an white american woman living in london for 6 years... I have to say white European women are more open to dating non white males. I have dated every colour man under the rainbow and loving living in London for that reason. In the US, I still find there are sterotypes...profiling....and people in inter-racial relationships are made to feel uncomfortable by both the white and black communities.... one of the reasons I stay in London is my freedom to date men of colour without persecution....and I definately feel persecuted in the US because of the beautiful men I choose as partners.

 

I keep hearing such things. Based on your personal experiences or observations, can you further elaborate on all that?

 

Clarence Thomas and Virginia "Ginni" Lamp Thomas is a conservative couple.

But if you're speaking relevance, I'd argue it's a liberal issue because conservatives generally would be against the Loving v. Virginia case back in 1956.

 

in answer to your clarification question

When I am in London no matter what colour the man I am with...I do not get off looks from anyone... no off comments....nothing.... in the US....in the media...movies, tv etc... how often do you hear women complain that once a black man gets successful he dates a white woman...how often do you hear...oh god and there was that time you went out with that white girl....or yeah she is dating a black man...but it's just a phase... or black men only date fat white women...i could go on and on and on....the racial divide is widening in the us....where in the uk it is closing....none of the above comments would ever be said in the uk....i was dating a Trinny from Brooklyn when we went out during the day I swear I was the only white person for miles and the looks I got were awful ... mean nasty looks from the black women....and the looks he got were awful in a different way...the men were all giving him thumbs up....men he didn't even know....it was the hey...congrat bro...you snagged a white girl....it made me ill.... I love London for it's diversity and openness.... please note... it was not always this way... in speaking to some of the black men I know...as little as 10 years ago...it was pretty rough being a black man there....and there was a time when the pubs had signs that read...no dogs, no blacks, no irish..... in London now... the fastest growing populations is the inter-racial population.... I hope that helps clarify a bit.... I really wish all people in the US would stop with the stereotypes, stop the deepening divide, quit 'categorizing' .... I am not even sure if people see the forest through the trees anymore... we are all just people... regardless of the colour of our skin.... the americans need to open their minds.... and until they do I think I will just stay in my open minded lovely London world...

 

I'm pleased you have that freedom of dating brothers in London. What tips can you give the White American women in the States?

 

That's where my family lives in London! That's why I'm come over there soon and pay a handsome visit to see what's up with them thus far. And, of course, for them to help me out with something.

Hey, Global Girl, thanks for share your story with us. I find that very encouraging, indeed!

 

for sure

 

....go with your heart...date who you want.... if people stop dating/marrying/being with the person you want, it just adds to the BS and keeps the divide.....if everyone just starts looking at people for who they are...and not what colour they are... I think you would find a very different and better society in the US....and finally to white american women.... open your hearts and minds and eyes to all the men out there....who knows... you may just meet the man of your dreams!!!.... and he could be white as a fresh beautiful snowflake or as dark as the richest most beautiful chocolate there is....

 

Well its nice to see that you made it through all the non-sense and that you have found some happiness for yourself. i respect you. You were brave enough to reject the non-sense of both black people, white people and other non-white people and you were PRO-ACTIVE.

it must have been very hard but you made it.

Some ww don't have the resources, opportunity, and or personal strength to make a permanent move like you have done and take a stand.

how does your family react to your decision to move?

it makes me very sad to hear that you had to go thru that level of prejudice you did.

When i was a boy at 10-11 yrs old i was racist and i wasn't until i was exposed to other cultures that i saw the dysfunction in my own culture.

and since then it had been a constant growth experience. and now i see myself climbing a mountain and at some point i'll reach the top.

With alot of the bm/ww couples here in the states i see, usually the BM is a very high-strung, alert and edgy man because he catches hell from both black and white people on all different levels constatnly.

but you have achieved a goal of happiness and you are there and now you reflecting and sharing/inspiring all of us.

have you seen this film called "obsessed" starring Idris Alba and Beyonce

it makes me sad because there is so much symbolism in the film but it basically plays into the idea as WW as being evil and a BW must stand up, fight back and stop the beautiful evil WW from stealing her black man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3swMmqBTVQ

these documentaries show the struggle of Interacial dating - but the simple fact is racial tensions and all the diff. level of complexity (class-culture-religion-politics-sex etc.,) in the USA will always exist. It will not change anytime soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SOCjYuGa5g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKrsyhh3jQA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgYOAuO3rRI&feature=related


BM/WW couples depending on who they are, where they live and what they do for a living will always have a struggle that they have to overcome if they're living here in the states.

here they talk about how UK is becoming more interacial, so i guess your report confirms this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2moSvsIAbC0

me personally i would never want to expose myself or a WW to the type of non-sense that would occur in the type of environment i currently live in Silver Spring, Maryland as a BM/WW couple.

Having all the things happen that global girl just mentioned is an un-natural way to live,

Some WW who aren't racist, who are patient and open-minded are ginuwinely afraid and should be because they whole infrastructure that supports her would basically tear her down.

i see it all the time. its sad.

 

I see BM/WW couples on a very regular basis and I have never noted this type of behavior. The BM that I know who date WW have also not reported feeling this way. Your comment appears to be a pretty broad generalization, and I realize you used 'usually' instead of 'always', but it's still overly general IMO.

I saw Obsessed, and I liked it. I however did not see a WW trying to steal a BW's man, I saw a psychotic bitch trying to steal a woman's husband. Though I realize people like to label and stereotype everything, because it makes their lives more comfortable when they can put things in neat little boxes, that doesn't mean those stereotypes and labels apply to everything, or that everyone sees the world through those distorted filters.

I find I have grown quite weary of the labels, stereotypes, and generalizations. It would be a full time pursuit to counter each and every one of them with facts and common sense, so at this point I'm just going to let people wallow in their own stupidity, as long as I don't have to deal with them on a personal level.

Well I live in what most consider to be 'Redneck Central' and I have not witnessed anyone giving any couples crap. I was born and raised in the Panhandle, which during my childhood was really well known for being almost entirely populated by white people, and I didn't witness any issues there either, nor did anyone ever give me crap regardless of who I was dating. I've never had to 'struggle' to overcome anything with regards to who I chose to date, nor do I expect I will. I suspect a lot of that would depend upon one's overall outlook, temperment, and personality though. If you're the sort who thinks a BM dating a WW is in some way unusual, exceptional, or outside the norm, then you'd likely interpret more things as a 'struggle'. I do not view BM dating WW as anything other than a man dating a woman, there is nothing exceptional about that to me, it's as 'normal' as breathing. People in relationships sometimes 'struggle', that's life, it has nothing to do with whether they share the same skin tone or not. That may not be the way some people perceive it, but their perception in no way affects my reality.

I am curious how 'who they are', and 'what they do for a living' factors into how much of a struggle they would have to overcome though?

I'm sorry you see that all the time. However, if you're the sort of person who actually allows other people's thoughts to impact your life, you really probably should just give up and stay home. There is absolutely no reason anyone should fear dating a man because of public scrutinty, backlash, stupid comments, or hateful stares. Who cares what ignorant people think? Not me. That extends to my family as well. I'm not going to tolerate that kind of ignorant behavior and baseless opinions from anyone, frankly I just wouldn't want to associate with people like that regardless of whether I happen to be related to them or not. I understand that it can be difficult for people whose families prefer they only date WM, but caving to stupidity like that is just something I wouldn't do. You can either choose to be your own person, or you can live under someone else's thumb the rest of your life, but truly what kind of life is that to live? Not to mention why would you want to date someone who lives their life by everyone else's rules, someone who won't stand up for what they think is right? I have no use for cowards, they just really aren't worth your time.

 

You are probably correct about me making a generalization based on what i SEE everyday. I don't know much about where you live, what type of area you live in, or what type of people you live around. but you are correct about me generalizing. thank you for correcting me!

lets accept the fact that the film was a very successful movie. it made 70 mill dollars. despite being criticised by critics for some of the same reasons i highlighted, lots of people went to see this film and it made money. if the adultress character were a non-white person do you honestly think this film would have made $$$? lets say the actress was a black, asian, or latino actress. lets say jada pinkett-smith, salma hayek, or J.Lo or Lucy Liu or mixed race actress like a Mariah Carrey played the adultress, would it have done well? maybe. we will never know.

if you look at beyonce's image as a R&B singer its mostly a diva image that black women identify with. this image is talked about in this link here.

http://community.essence.com/forum/topics/beyonces-image-is-she-helping

so basically this films selling point is that it pits the beyonce diva image against a beautiful WW character who is psychotic who is trying to steal beyonce's black man from her. and at the end of the film beyonce is forced to KILL the WW at the end. its all symbolism. this is what pulled audeinces into theaters. that was the HOOK In my opinion.

too many black women complain that WW are tying to "steal our men"
even though jungle fever is just a film. i hear war councils of angry BW talk in circles liek this all the time. and obssessed IMO plays into this sort of tension just not overtly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpOMQ41UB9c

again. i don't know anything about the mentality of the people who you live around, grew up with or how they act think and what their beliefs are. Maybe you and your community is not affected by prejudice and racism and so on. if this is the case they you are lucky because it clearly hasn't affected you, nor has it affected your outlook. i appluad you for this.

as for as the interacial dating and class issue. this gentleman on youtube.com comments on some things and i agree with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knOLuxZpk8


this gentlemen here makes generalizations but he makes some valid points about class.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/319237/interracial_dating_can_be_tough.html?cat=41

as far as class / status and location /the environment goes and whether the environment is open/indifferent to interical dating or whether there is hostile racial tension- there are lots of factors to consider. maybe in your part of town as you say (redneck) mixed couples are just as welcome. Well you and your town/community are fortunate.

I can only comment on what i have seen, experienced and heard. you are fortunate in that you don't or haven't had the misfortune of seeing what BM/WW couples go thru. I can understand what Global Girl stuggle once was. because I grew up in Washington D.C. / Silver Spring, Maryland. Washington D.C. once was called "chocolate city" and it was because it was a real melting pot of diff. kinds of black people. It is starting to become more diverse/integrated everyday but it still is a chocolate city. and all i can tell you is alot of the BM/WW couples i have known who are happy but its a struggle from them because they catch hell all the time from both races.
Sure times are better and things have improved and are more integrated but some things will NEVER change. Some of them are strong and ignore the non-sense and live their lives and raise happy families. But it isn't easy.

well id you really fell this way, why are you telling me this. say this to Global Girl. She just got finished telling us the HELL she went thru and she finally took a stand and did something about it. She relocated! and she is now happy because she can FEEL the cultural difference and she is HAPPY. Did she give up and go home? No
she took action.

 

You use your gazillion links to fiction like they mean anything... they dont. They are merely a piece of the puzzle, for every link you provide, there is an equal link pointing in the opposite direction. For every experience you provide, there is another one, completely opposite.
Granted, you do have some valid points but you drown them in attempt to provide links to support your point, but they still don't, they are as I said, just little pieces of a puzzle. Most people realize that fiction is fiction and many dont interpret them as you do.
This is merely how you perceive things, not reality, just your view of it.

I personally cant relate to anything about how you think your links (movies, youtube discussions, posts, media etc - get interpreted by the masses and how you think they get influenced by them...as I said, you have a point, you just take it to far... The world don't operate that black and white. Its not that simple or unidirectional.

 

Well thanks for taking the time to educate me on how and why you cannot relate to anything that i link to. Again its constructive criticisim that make me look in the mirror. If you are referring to my links/posts about my background or how i grew up or how i feel about certain types of women or genearlizations about certain types of american white people etc.,, then you have the right, privilege & The Freedom to not see things from my perspective as a BM who has been thru HELL. That's the sad-harsh truth about the environment that i lived and its the hard truth. I wish i was perfect but i'm not. I'm realizng more and more that i cannot EXPECT someone else to really understand and SEE what i'm talking about no matter how hard i try to clearly illustrate this with visual aids. its a case of me being unfair and i'm sorry.

again i don't know you. i don't know what your life experiences are, how you feel about things or what your beliefs are or whether you have had postive or negative life experiences and how you may feel about those experiences. i don't know. so again i could look thru you threads and read about what you reveal about yourself and make judgement calls but do i really know YOU. no. :smt102:smt102:smt102

you are correct in the fiction is not reality. but its not as though we are talking star trek, spider man movies or horror movies or tyler perry comedy sketches. Alot of times Art imitates life. Documentaries-News Shows-Talk shows Movies-Soap Operas and even some sitcoms that try to deal with complex socio-political issues (overtly or indirectly) like race,class, sex, age, the power looks, status, culture, egos, family etc., will always be made and make money because atleast in the united states this something that enough people think about constantly and maybe even obssess about.

i would love to see these other links that contradict what i'm saying. show me some. but again what are you criticizing i have posted lots of links. i have talked about lots of different types of subjects. Are you now making generalizations?

if this is thing of you not liking my posting style to see posts with lots of links/pics then i'm deeply sorry that this gives you a headache. i really am. that's how i feel and i feel the need to illustrate the point i want to make with visuals. Visuals sometimes help give a picture. but unless someone bans me for it or unless i have broken a posting rule/law i have the right to post as many links as like. However i don't expect everyone to see, understand, agree or even care.

as you said you cannot relate to what i say. i don't know which of my posts your are refering to, i have made many but again, i can't expect another person to UNDERSTAND who hasn't had my life experience. so again i apologize for trying to make a person walk a mile in my shoes - visually.

i can greatly appreciate the fact that you or someone like yourself thinks or lives in an environment that doesn't have these types of problems.

Global Girl gave a harsh depiction of what she as a WW went thru and she took action and now she feels happy and she FEELS the difference and she feels better about herself as a person. :smt038:smt038:smt038:smt038

and i respect her for this and i was merely agreeing with her and trying to say that i understand how she feels. and that i have a strong sense of what she went thru being isolated as a WW around black people (black women) who are racist and not happy with where they are at in their lives.

i pointed to the film Obssessed starring beyonce. i do like some of beyonce's songs. but its an understatement to say that she doesn't have a niche audience that supports her. its mainly black women. whenever she does a film those FANS come out to support her. in this case she plays a BW who has to stop a attractive psyschotic WW from stealing her man. if you look at the trailer this is the seling point for the film. i felt that this film plays into that racial tension/resentment about BW that feel that WW are trying to steal - sexually tempt "good" "successful" Black men from Black women.


it is a fact that interacial dating is tough for lots people especially BM/WW. not all but alot are catching hell. that is not fiction.

it is a fact that too many black people in the USA are Complexion/Looks obssessed.

it is a fact the USA is a materialistic competitive society

it is a fact that racsim/prejudice exist in the USA in all forms and its alive and healthy in the goverment and other places. Sure its not everywhere. this is not the 1960's. But it will always exist.

 

...You have made some amazing and insightful comments!! I wouldn't necessarily call myself proactive....just someone who is too old and has learned life is too short to care what other people think .... someday I hope things will change in the US, but I think there is a long road ahead.... and someday I will move back to, and hopefully with a beautiful man, preferably a BM on my arm.....

 

ive got that posted on my fridge

[YOUTUBE]pUjh9Id6Id8[/YOUTUBE]

 

well i'm glad SOMEONE for a change appreciated my comments. but yeah things won't change anytime soon. Too much racial tension for my taste.
when its my turn to leave i will aim at a country that isn't an english speaking country.

Does your family people miss you? How did they react to your leaving? Were you happy to leave?