Tall Poppy Syndrome/Jante

Since some of you put as much effort into writing a thread as you do the tying of your shoelaces, I'm hoping that this one will garner some thoughtful responses. Remember, the key word is "think." :-|

I've had the unique pleasure of first hand experience with Australian and Scandanavian cultures. There are two concepts that influence social perspectives in both: Tall Poppy Syndrome and jante law.

They are similar in that individuals who stand out as extraordinary in Australia or Sweden, for example, may be taken to task by the surrounding community. For Americans this would be the polar opposite of our culture, as it celebrates people with dubious achievements.

Anyway, discuss . . .

 

You didn't do a real good job at explaining jante law and tall poppy syndrome. I think it will leave many of your members wondering what they are.

 

Exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

 

i read the following, which i think sums up the aussies 'tall poppy syndrome' and the thinking process of australians in general. the bolded parts are the most poignant points:

Still today the best that you can do for someone is to “give ‘em a fair go” and the ‘Aussie battler' is celebrated as someone who may not ever win, but who will face any adversity and never give up trying. Australians' frequent support of the underdog in everything from sport to business to politics (and particularly in the union movement) celebrates the idea of people who just keep on trying and who would rather be a ‘battler' than a ‘tall poppy'!

Most Australians will tell you that a ‘tall poppy' is someone who has an inflated sense of self worth. Many expats and migrants will tell you, as though determined to avoid that situation, that they find Australians are fairly reluctant to offer praise for a job well done. Unlike America where individual achievements are feted from a very early age, the culture in Australia is very much one of teamwork and mateship – an ‘all for one and one for all' kind of society. Achievements are of most value when they benefit the team, not the individual, and new players may find it helpful to be modest about achievements and to downplay their successes.

Clearly the spirit of competition is alive and well here, but perhaps with a caveat of not being too successful? In many ways, this is partly what contributes to Australia's laid back lifestyle, but it is also a source of frustration for many newcomers to the country. If high achievers are actually allowed to show what's possible, without getting knocked for it, it means the bar is raised for everyone else too and that's not to everyone's liking. In Australia people work to live, they don't live to work; work is very much seen as something you do to fundyour lifestyle and if you have to spend eight to 10 hours a day in the office, then it had better be a relaxed place to work. Talking and joking with colleagues, having time out in the office kitchen or during Friday night drinks are sacred work practices here and it's important to join your colleagues in them if you want to be accepted here. Australia really is a land of opportunity, but whatever success you enjoy, just don't boast about it. (By the way, we just bought a new labrador puppy and named her Poppy – I just hope she doesn't grow too tall.)

Wikipedia describes tall poppy syndrome as “a populist, levelling, social attitude”. Someone is said to be a target of tall poppy syndrome when his or her assumption of a higher economic, social, or political position is criticised as being presumptuous, attention seeking or without merit. Alternatively, it is seen as a societal phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are criticised or resented because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers. In other words, you're damned if you think you're better than the rest and you're damned if you actually are better than the rest!


i don't know when or who taught me about 'tall poppy syndrome', it's just always been a known thing...but it is true that in australia, no-one is better than anyone else and we do love the underdog...and therefore, if you do get ahead of yourself for any reason whatsoever, we will cut you back down to size

 

To further flesh out the concept by comparative example, an American who views self-worth through not only whatever goods they own or possess naturally, but also the need to advertise those goods would quickly be cut down (like a poppy) to size in an Australian social context.

 

I know nothing about Tall Poppy.. but loads about the Jante Law, something all Scandinavians are aware of.. It originated in the peasant system we lived in and the society relied on teamwork and no one in particular was expected to take credit over others, I guess in a way to ensure buy-in from all team members, you could not afford to have someone slack.

Its not so much about envy about peoples fortune/abilities etc as has been suggested in foreign studies about the Jante Law, its more a distaste for perceived arrogance and self promotion... It may even be perceived as throwing others under the bus sort of speak at workplaces if you boast about a task you performed.

You can be the richest or smartest or most talented - as long as you don't boast. Its more a culture of keep your head down and be humble... I suspect its a little Lutheran.... In the past it wasn't looked upon w kind eyes if you dressed glossy or drove an extraordinary whip etc.... I think this mentality is changing however.


From an American perspective, Jante's law may be Scandinavia's greatest cultural difference. In the American workplace, management uses positive reinforcement with employees as a method of motivation. In Sweden and much of Scandinavia, one is expected to get ones work done, without much herald. It can be related to the Swedish proverb, "Noble deeds are done in silence". If an American enters the Swedish workplace expecting the same treatment of endless compliments for a job well done, they are certainly in for a surprise. Likewise, should a Swede come to work in the states, they are not likely to know the proper response to the barrage of compliments they will receive. It is typical of Swedes to respond to compliments in a negative manner, by saying "No, I really didn't do anything special," or "It wasn't anything anyone else couldn't easily do." In the states, responding to a compliment in this manner is insulting to the person giving the compliment in the way that it infers the person didn't know what they were talking about. However, should the American respond to a compliment in a Swedish workplace with "Thanks, I did my best!" or "It was easy", they will be received as being boastful, overly proud, and in direct violation of Jante's law.

 

I guess from this post, one can say this guy I know named GZ is swedish and practices Jante's law daily. I think he desrves swedish citzenship.

 

you just want that so you can be surrounded by 100's and 1000's of sexy blonde swedes...!!! what a thinly veiled excuse

 

Why is it changing?

 

I think for the most part the influence from America on so many levels, music, Hollywood, TV, Movies.... Also the influence of foreigners who moved in.

It has slowly changed since the 70s I would say - its still there but less so compared to then. For a more complete version, I would have to rely on 'Sweden' and 'Ununhexium' that lives there as my observation is as an Xpat - looking in and seeing changes every-time I visit.n I doubt it will ever go away but its not as severe in regards to cars and clothes etc as it used to be.

 

If we were see jantelagen as something good, Americans would consider it socialism. But we're more likely to see it as jealousy in the first place.

I prefer to let people have their individuality, do well and then prove themselves to be without class or substance all by themselves. It's more fun that way.

 

Exactly, I share your same sentiment; quick, simple and to the point.

Moreover we may run in packs in nature, but there is always leader/rank. This whole selflessness excrement stuff is for the birds because you and I both know it's survival of the fittest at the end of the day. At the very least, you may rise to prominence because of natural ability (whether you are praised for it or not), but there is always rank within the pack (which represents power in numbers/selfless/we are not better than you, you are not better then us/we are the world). Does that make sense, it does in my head.