why G-d punish the innocent and reward the evil ?

[goodlove]

You see it all the time babies born with some type of illness or good parents unable to conceive children but people who abuse kids and kill them are popping them out like it is their fulltime job.

how about babies born in poverty and other born in wealth. why ?

then you read in the bible where it states G-d knows the hairs on your head but is testing you to see what is in your heart . so if G-d is all knowing then why test you ?

why do you see evil people get off and the victims suffer and the righteous forsaken ? example i have seen people report crimes against them and the police drag their feet and move with extreme antipathy. when the criminal get caught if ever they get off light and the victim has to expend excessive amount of time to recover...why is that the innocent suffer the righteous looked over, the victims get victimize over and over while the evil get rewared and spared punishment ?

why should we believe in G-d ?

 

[AfroLove]

I've come to three possible conclusions : 1) there is an all-powerful god but he/she/it doesn't feel compassion for humans and other animals, 2) God does feel compassion for other sentient beings but he/she/it isn't all-powerful and is not in a position to help us, as much as he/she/it wants to and 3) there is no god.

 

[Arwen]

If we had health, money, love, everything we wanted, would we appreciate it at all?
And God put us on this earth but then it doesn't mean he's supposed to give us anything.
Then, I think we as souls need to evolve while we go further with our lives, and to become mature souls you need to try bad things too.

I think the children who are born ill or that die young are souls that decided to make that particular life for a reason, same goes for those who do "bad" things in life like killing somebody. Chosing to be a mean person when you rehincarnate takes a lot of courage.....

 

[Cyrus]

First off:

You know, it's so good to discuss so many topics with people here! They should have a politics section.

I agree. Politics and Religion.

Anyway, as far as your question ... well, I can't say as anyone "should" believe in God or not, that's up to you. But I think the heart of what you're saying is, how can there be an all knowing and all loving God, if evil and injustice exist in the world?

Boiled way, way down and simplified, the best answer western theology has for that is that there's only a contradiction because you don't understand the words you are using.

I don't mean you in particular by the way, goodlove. What I mean is, supposedly the reason that bad people can do monstrous things and get away with it and innocent people can suffer for no fault of their own, even under the watch of a loving and all-powerful God, is that "all-powerful" does not mean quite what most people think it means.

What's implied by asking why the benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient God would allow suffering and injustice is the assumption that it would be possible, even for an omnipotent, omniscent being, to stop those things without (say) destroying the universe.

I've had this conversation with people before however, so let me answer in advance anyone who says, "Of course an omnipotent being could do all that, even without destroying the universe or whatever, because that's what omnipotent means. Able to do absolutely anything!"

I can only at this point repeat what I've said before. The problem lies in how you are defining the words. The contradiction will persist so long as you insist on your definitions.

Really, I mean check this Wikipedia page out: Omnipotence Paradox

Theologians and philosophers have been over this stuff. Basically, God does not cause bad things to happen in the world. Bad things happen, and because we need to have free will in a world that is logically consistent, God if functionally powerless to stop it.

Say, for instance, a little kid is killed by a drunk driver, who just speeds away. Why didn't God just move the kid? Give the driver the good sense not to get behind the wheel? Bring the kid back after the fact? At least make sure the driver gets punished?

Can't do any of those, if doing so would make it clear that something intervened. Our free will is actually dependent on our not knowing for a fact that there is a God. Faith is irrelevant when there is scientific proof. So though God "could" do any of those things, he couldn't really, not because it's beyond him, but because doing so breaks the rules for our world.

 

[Espy]

First off:



I agree. Politics and Religion.

Anyway, as far as your question ... well, I can't say as anyone "should" believe in God or not, that's up to you. But I think the heart of what you're saying is, how can there be an all knowing and all loving God, if evil and injustice exist in the world?

Boiled way, way down and simplified, the best answer western theology has for that is that there's only a contradiction because you don't understand the words you are using.

I don't mean you in particular by the way, goodlove. What I mean is, supposedly the reason that bad people can do monstrous things and get away with it and innocent people can suffer for no fault of their own, even under the watch of a loving and all-powerful God, is that "all-powerful" does not mean quite what most people think it means.

What's implied by asking why the benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient God would allow suffering and injustice is the assumption that it would be possible, even for an omnipotent, omniscent being, to stop those things without (say) destroying the universe.

I've had this conversation with people before however, so let me answer in advance anyone who says, "Of course an omnipotent being could do all that, even without destroying the universe or whatever, because that's what omnipotent means. Able to do absolutely anything!"

I can only at this point repeat what I've said before. The problem lies in how you are defining the words. The contradiction will persist so long as you insist on your definitions.

Really, I mean check this Wikipedia page out: Omnipotence Paradox

Theologians and philosophers have been over this stuff. Basically, God does not cause bad things to happen in the world. Bad things happen, and because we need to have free will in a world that is logically consistent, God if functionally powerless to stop it.

Say, for instance, a little kid is killed by a drunk driver, who just speeds away. Why didn't God just move the kid? Give the driver the good sense not to get behind the wheel? Bring the kid back after the fact? At least make sure the driver gets punished?

Can't do any of those, if doing so would make it clear that something intervened. Our free will is actually dependent on our not knowing for a fact that there is a God. Faith is irrelevant when there is scientific proof. So though God "could" do any of those things, he couldn't really, not because it's beyond him, but because doing so breaks the rules for our world.

We have both Politics and Religion under News and views.

 

[AfroLove]

If we had health, money, love, everything we wanted, would we appreciate it at all?

There are people in the world (the clinically depressed, those in extreme poverty, those in the final stage of cancer or AIDS etc.) who never experience any form of pleasure, ever. Their lives are a constant state of unimaginable agony and torment. Happiness isn't required to experience stress, why do people believe that stress is required to 'appreciate' happiness. I don't think it is. I think this is a defense mechanism we employ since we know that we're stuck with some level of stress so we might as well romanticize it as being necessary and good. I believe that stress is only necessary if it helps to prevent more stress.

And God put us on this earth but then it doesn't mean he's supposed to give us anything.

How uncaring and thoughtless does someone have to be to create a person and not feel morally obligated to ensure that this person has the best standard of living possible? Why create people who will suffer to begin with, it's not as though any of us minded not existing or had a desire to experience the happiness we would if we were alive.

 

[Cyrus]

We have both Politics and Religion under News and views.

So you do! Thanks, still finding my way around.

 

[Anten7]

That which caused the universe is capable of being a tyrant - in the absolute sense. The universe is completely enslaved by the laws of Physics. The right to CHOOSE is an amazing symptom of consciousness. Without it, we'd be no different from a rock. Would you like to be a rock instead? Do you believe you'd be happy then?

 

[Arwen]

There are people in the world (the clinically depressed, those in extreme poverty, those in the final stage of cancer or AIDS etc.) who never experience any form of pleasure, ever. Their lives are a constant state of unimaginable agony and torment. Happiness isn't required to experience stress, why do people believe that stress is required to 'appreciate' happiness. I don't think it is. I think this is a defense mechanism we employ since we know that we're stuck with some level of stress so we might as well romanticize it as being necessary and good. I believe that stress is only necessary if it helps to prevent more stress.

We'll agree on disagreeing

How uncaring and thoughtless does someone have to be to create a person and not feel morally obligated to ensure that this person has the best standard of living possible? Why create people who will suffer to begin with, it's not as though any of us minded not existing or had a desire to experience the happiness we would if we were alive.

Read what I wrote above, that's the explanation I gave myself. And I think he DOES care. Just, we as souls make choices before staring living again. My take. This topic would need yrs to be dabated about though! so many thoughts!

 

[satyricon]

A. There is no God, none whatsoever.

B. The universe is (mostly) trillions of miles of cold and empty space with no beacons that confirm any inherent sense of justice within. Perhaps there is a Cosmic Hall of Justice somewhere, but it has yet to be found.

C. Human beings are the latest example of a dominant species on a planet in a corner of the universe that achieved its status after evolution combined the right sequences of DNA to produce reasoning primates. Prior to humans it was the fairly violent dinosaur species who, eventually like us, had their time and died off or evolved into something else (birds).

D. Nature is beautiful but also extremely violent. Any star could incinerate the Earth and all its lifeforms in a manner of seconds. Humans are a product of nature and just as violent as any predator past or present. In many respects we are foul breed and perhaps the world will be more beautiful once we are gone at some indeterminable date in the future. In the meantime, however, there is no agent in the heavens that will intervene on our behalf.

 

[donsboy]

The bible has the answers to your questions goodlove. have you ever read it. I`m asking because I've met tons of people who haven't but only take the word of others who haven't read it either. Have you ever read the bible story about the man job. It explains lots about why we suffer. Contact me at donsboy@hotmail.com and I can explain further.

 

[The Dark King]

You see it all the time babies born with some type of illness or good parents unable to conceive children but people who abuse kids and kill them are popping them out like it is their fulltime job.

why do you see evil people get off and the victims suffer and the righteous forsaken ? example i have seen people report crimes against them and the police drag their feet and move with extreme antipathy. when the criminal get caught if ever they get off light and the victim has to expend excessive amount of time to recover...why is that the innocent suffer the righteous looked over, the victims get victimize over and over while the evil get rewared and spared punishment ?

why should we believe in G-d ?

God doesn't punish the innocent or reward the wicked we do. God is just a concept to bring comfort to our minds. Truth is we're all we got. Our minds and our bodies. We can argue about the topic all night but the fact remains people need to start looking within before looking to the sky.

 

[wtarshi]

donsboy's sig: Part Teddy Part Grizzly ALL Bear!!!

thought i was the only bear round these parts....!!!

 

[Espy]

So you do! Thanks, still finding my way around.

NP, there's a lot to read on here!

 

[whikle]

If we had health, money, love, everything we wanted, would we appreciate it at all?
And God put us on this earth but then it doesn't mean he's supposed to give us anything.
Then, I think we as souls need to evolve while we go further with our lives, and to become mature souls you need to try bad things too.

I think the children who are born ill or that die young are souls that decided to make that particular life for a reason, same goes for those who do "bad" things in life like killing somebody. Chosing to be a mean person when you rehincarnate takes a lot of courage.....

Whaaaaaaaaaaa...?

God doesn't punish the innocent or reward the wicked we do. God is just a concept to bring comfort to our minds. Truth is we're all we got. Our minds and our bodies. We can argue about the topic all night but the fact remains people need to start looking within before looking to the sky.

Andrae! Andrae!! Andrae!!!!!!!! Where was this crystal clear, beautiful state of mind in the atheism thread?? lol

Now here's something I can whole-heartedly, 100%, ecstatically CO-SIGN!!

 

[GFunk]

It's just life, and it's fucked up.

 

[goodlove]

The bible has the answers to your questions goodlove. have you ever read it. I`m asking because I've met tons of people who haven't but only take the word of others who haven't read it either. Have you ever read the bible story about the man job. It explains lots about why we suffer. Contact me at donsboy@hotmail.com and I can explain further.

yes i have read it and it doesnt explian why we suffer. read the book of JOB. It seems G-d is a very narcisstic being when you read it with an object and critical view.

 

[goodlove]

If we had health, money, love, everything we wanted, would we appreciate it at all?
And God put us on this earth but then it doesn't mean he's supposed to give us anything.
Then, I think we as souls need to evolve while we go further with our lives, and to become mature souls you need to try bad things too.

I think the children who are born ill or that die young are souls that decided to make that particular life for a reason, same goes for those who do "bad" things in life like killing somebody. Chosing to be a mean person when you rehincarnate takes a lot of courage.....

it is courages to bully, torment and torture people ? was adolf hilter your hero ? was ghandi a coward ?

 

[Cyrus]

yes i have read it and it doesnt explian why we suffer. read the book of JOB. It seems G-d is a very narcisstic being when you read it with an object and critical view.

Yeah, I didn't want to say anything when he got all THE BIBLE ANSWERS EVERYTHING!, but totally agreed with you on the Book of Job.

I don't want to offend anyone, but really the Book of Job just makes God seem like an asshole.

Once again, apologies if I offend anyone, but truthfully the "God" of the Judeo Christian bible pretty much is ... just kind of a jerk.

 

[The Dark King]

Yeah, I didn't want to say anything when he got all THE BIBLE ANSWERS EVERYTHING!, but totally agreed with you on the Book of Job.

I don't want to offend anyone, but really the Book of Job just makes God seem like an asshole.

Once again, apologies if I offend anyone, bruthfully the "God" of the Judeo Christian bible pretty much is ... just kind of a jerk.

As I've said before just something to put our minds at ease. There's something about us as humans that need answers so sometimes we make it up. One thing I do know is that if there is a God then he/she is a god that doesn't involve themselves with human life and that to me is as good as not existing. Like I said before all we have is us.