What is a good black man?

All types of White women are with Black men. Being with a Black man doesn't make one open minded or without prejudice. Not to say Maddy is like that; her description of a Black man being not too different from what I've seen Black women construct. They affirm the negative stereotype and then ask for/want a Black man the opposite of that....ie..the good Black man.

 

That's very hurtful

Knowing how beautiful this world can be if the we would let go of the terror of the past and concentrate on finding solutions for the future but talking and understanding each other way of thinking.

What you said is very hurtful!

I never thought possible two sentences from a stranger could bring tears into my eyes and make my heart bleed, but it did.

Sorry you see it that way! Maybe if people will be more open to say what they really think versus what the others will like to hear, then we'll get to really understand each other and come to a compromise.

Sorry you see it this way!

 

I'm sorry for coming at you harshly, but your post made me cringe. There are shitty as BM out there and who live up to the stereotypes, but to have a perception where they all have to fit into certain boxes, that's where I had to say something.

I do apologize Maddy. I'm not one to hurt someones feelings, but I'm also honest and I will defend what's right.

 

the term Good Black Man assumes Black man are bad by default. It's a loaded term and unanswerable. Given a number of situations I and others good by "bad". Though you would be surprised how many people, Black especially, who believe in genetic determinism.

 

and then there are the Black men who willingly accept this stereotype, take pride in it....but then some get upset when people don't take them seriously or treat them like the nigga they affirm to be....

 

Where is the real truth laying?

To expect my partner will meet me half way should not be seen as flawed or sad. I am not asking for him to live up to standards that i cannot reach myself. It's simply a fair deal.

If obviously you think my requirements are unreasonable, what about you let me know what are the traits, that will define a black men as good in your perspective are.

The thing is i don't know what i don't know, so I am willing to learn more about your way of thinking and if you can make your argument stand, then I promise to adjust my point of view.

Sincerely

 

Let me break down your post so you can see how someone could perceive things negatively.

This one is isn't racial, but whatever for having an actual figure...lol

You're insinuating that BM have an illegal hustle.

You're assuming that BM aren't capable of doing said things outside of whatever is considered, "Black" (like you said) vs. White.

What clothing is culture specific? Thug garb? Again, very stereotypical...

You're acting like BM aren't, but should be....

 

It has nothing to do with your standards or requirements per se, I just think you have a racial bias behind them. If you dated WM, I could bet your list wouldn't have any stereotypical (I used stereotypical as opposed to racial cause you're both the same race) connotation.

I don't define men off of their race. Good men are good men period. I don't categorize Black men and wanting them to fit a certain criteria cause they're Black.

A respectful, responsible, upstanding, caring individual is a good man to me.

 

I'm not even kidding, I've never until now heard of someone saying that. It's ridiculous, because I'd say a good rule of thumb is that if someone has to tell you they're something, then they probably aren't.

IMO, a good man is known as good by his actions. Someone who does wrong, but attempts to defend themself by pointing at others who are theoretically worse? I wonder if we should call that person a man at all, considering the childishness of the behavior.

And if there is any flaw in Maddy's perspective, it would only be if she generalizes the problems encountered with past relationships as problems typical to dating black men. Basically, anyone who is single now but has not always been has probably had some bad experiences with people they dated. If you didn't have the bad experiences, you'd still be with them.

Myself, even if a relationship doesn't work out (most don't, right?) I don't really assume the woman was completely at fault. If nothing else, I'd have to take responsibility for having chosen to date her in the first place. I think the idea is to learn from our own pasts to make ourselves better people ... and beyond that to take or leave others as they are.

 

Trey, I realize this is not what you had in mind when you asked this question, and that you sought the opinions of the men, rather than the women, however maddy addressed a question specifically to me and so I am answering.

I don't think in terms of 'good black men' or 'good white men', there are just good men. A good man is more than a credit score, more than the clothes he wears, more than the car he drives, where he calls home, or who he chooses to associate with. If he has a good heart, is honest, treats people with respect when that's appropriate, stands up for what he believes in regardless of whether that is popular or not, is capable of accepting and returning love, and defends what he loves, IMO he's a good man.

People think far too much in absolutes for my taste. Just because someone has what you view as a fault, doesn't mean they aren't a good man. Sometimes people behave as they do because of the circumstances they are in, or because it's all they've known. You don't have to condone or condem them for it, sometimes it's perfectly okay to try to see if from their perspective and just understand.

Using your examples:

1. Credit can get screwed up a variety of ways, and that's not necessarily indicative of poor decisions on the part of one individual. Ask goodlove about that one, he learned that the hard way. One thing I will say is that guy's family must have been tight, cause I'd think long and hard before I cosigned a car loan for someone.

2. Perhaps to him that was appropriate attire. Frankly sounds like clubwear to me. If you expected him to show up dressed a specific way, you should have discussed that with him before hand. Some people don't have a lot of experience with social interaction outside their immediate family and circle, and that might be real limited. For all you know maybe that's the nicest thing he had to wear, so in his mind he was 'dressed up'. As long as he was clean and neat, I really wouldn't care what he had on, as long as he was comfortable, everyone else could just deal.

3. Views on weed vary greatly. I've personally never tried it, but that doesn't mean I think it's the equivalent to meth or crack. I would think the bigger issue would be that you and he clearly see 'drugs' differently, and that's one of those issues that really needs to be worked out early on in a relationship. Buying a friend $20 worth of weed does not a drug dealer make.

4. Seriously, this really isn't a big deal to me at all. If I couldn't swim, I'd likely not want to be around water either. I personally don't like the beach at all because I burn quickly and badly, so you wouldn't catch me there either. If a guy I'm dating wanted to go spend the day at the beach, he'd be free to do that with friends, I'd just politely decline and if he can't respect that then he can go find a woman who tans.

So basically, nothing you've mentioned has anything to do with whether someone is a 'good man' or not. It's a bunch of personal preference and individual taste. You're free to have any particular criteria you like, but it's just that, your criteria.

Ah, you see right there is the fatal flaw maddy. I used to approach life that way, believing as long as I never expected more from someone than I expected from myself that I was being 'fair minded'. I've figured out that's bullshit. I hold myself to very high standards, there is no one I expect more from than myself. But I am a consummate perfectionist, and I finally realized that holding anyone else to that standard wasn't appropriate because it's hard to meet if you're me, and most people just don't want to put that much effort into life. People also come with varying degrees of capabilities, education, intellect, personality, etc. and to hold someone to a standard they just literally can't meet is just plain wrong and very unfair to them.

You have to look at people as individuals, not as people who must meet a list of traits or requirements, because no two people will be the same. IB's list wouldn't help you, she's not you, you have to figure out what works for you and go from there. Your initial post appears shallow to me, but if shallow is working for you then have at it. But you shouldn't be shocked that people reacted offensively to you reducing a good black man to good credit, nice clothes, common hobbies, and appropriate habits.

 

I prefer the term 'good man' to 'good black man'. I also prefer to be called a man or male as opposed to 'black man' or 'black male'. I guess I agree with xoxo, 'good black man' does lead me to feel that it means black men are inherently bad and the 'good' man is then the exception.

 

Here, here! Just like it will one day be nice to be considered simply an american, versus being first noted as an AFRICAN american. Geeze, America is the only country I know - is our blood not red like any other man?

-steps off soapbox-

 

Good points, man. I still think people believe the "good black man" thing though. They may not be aware of it, though. Like you said, it's ignorance a lot of the time, which is why they aren't aware of it. I'm just speaking on it like that because it's happened to me several times.

Funny thing is, this shit never happened to me before 8th grade, before I changed schools, and that school was diverse as fuck since that how my city is, but when I switched to a new school, the shit came outta nowhere. Maybe I changed schools right at that time when we started becoming more aware of race. 8th grade was when i really started noticing people my age talking about racial things.

 

The bluegrass state is representing!!! Great post!!! :smt023

 

Wooooooow.......

 

See what I mean.

 

excellent point and that term probably came from the racists back in the day when a black person sided with white folks on their issues and the racist would say you are a smart negroe and you are a credit to your race and you are a good negro

is she any different from what black women say on TV and in private .... NO.

great post.

yall can get offended about the credit score but I can dig what she is saying. I have experienced people with bad credit scores and I talked to people who dated people with bad credit scores and they will say what Im gonna say:

MOST of the time the credit score/history is an indicator of character flaws you want to watchout for..example:

1) the inability to keep their word
2) which in turn they are possible liars
3) inability to manage money
4) immature and inability to prioritize and plan for the future
5) selfishness and narcissism

Like I stated most of the time this is true. you will have to look at the credit history. if they became ill and had to pay an excessive amt of hospital bills then that is understandable or loss of a job. Outside of that then more than likely they should not be fucked with on a trusting level. and Im goning off of experience and talking to others (financial experts, psychologist, marriage counselors, books , pastors and rabbi's and friends)

as far as the clothes issue I agree with you IB to an extent...she maybe saying that a person white or black should be able to assess the climate and adjust accordingly.

good damn point.

 

'you're the whitest black guy I ever known...and that's a good thing'

excerpt taken from How to Be a Good Black Man in America, written by Weie B. Koonz



:smt111

 

Now we are getting somewhere

Ok,

I see what are you saying now so i will follow you on the break down and hopefully you'll understand why i choose these things to post and not others.
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Let me break down your post so you can see how someone could perceive things negatively.

This one is isn't racial, but whatever for having an actual figure...lol

Yes, the actual figure is high and has a lot to do with my job. So this is the story.

Doing real estate in NYC, we know to be able to rent an apartment to someone he/she or both have to be qualified as good tenants from the landlord perspective. That means they must have a credit score of min 700 and the proof of income that will cover 40 times the rent amount. In case of a couple or family, the credit score that will be considered is the lowest of the two.

So if me and my boyfriend want to have the apartment is a safe neighborhood we both love... 700 credit score is bottom line for me and my partner, it doesn't matter what color he is.
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You're insinuating that BM have an illegal hustle.

As i mentioned before i was confronted once with a situation when i was seeing someone who thought it was ok to help his co-workers to get some weed because it was just $20 bucks and apparently not even a real drug.

No i understood that his intention was good and what he thought was: Well i live in a neighborhood where to get weed is easy and if i can help a friend get some and make some money off of it, why not do it?

Now, what he haven't seen it coming is that once he did that once, at work he was just the black dude who can get them weed. It ruined everything and covered in dust all his merits and the efforts he did to get that job in the first place.

So please you guys who think this way, don't do it. This is the border that once crossed will turn a good man bad.
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You're assuming that BM aren't capable of doing said things outside of whatever is considered, "Black" (like you said) vs. White.

On the contrary, they are actually capable to do everything white, hispanic or asian people do, but most of the time they don't want to and they choose to use the stereotype - Black people don't swim or do i look like i need tan as an excuse for not doing things.

They know if they say i don't want to come with you at the beach or i don't like be around your friends so much, they'll open the door for a confrontation, but by using the race card and the stereotype as an excuse doesn't leave me a choice and i have to go by myself.
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What clothing is culture specific? Thug garb? Again, very stereotypical.

It is very stereotypical. In my post i was addressing exclusively the things that form the black stereotypes because Trey question it was about the stereotipical black men calling himself a good black men. You guys can wear whatever the heck you want and you'll still look gorgeous in my eyes.

Just in certain situations we should raise above ourselves for the sake of the ones we love.

I know how important is for you guys to be proud of your heritage and how good you feel about being black. That's why i love you in the first place, but if you present yourself in a way that other people at work or my family find over the top you'll put me in a difficult situation to defend our relationship and most of the time we'll have to choose between you and them.

If you want to say I am a good black man and mean it, is is too much to ask to be good to me and not let me be torn apart between you and my family?
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You're acting like BM aren't, but should be....

A lot of them are and there are the other ones who are not but still desire they should be praised as they are, because the stereotype says so......
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Thanx for sharing your thoughts guys . I read all of your posts and got understand everyone's argument. Sometimes i am silly like that :smt021
I love the fact that I got the chance to have a real feed back from all of you and I'll try to learn from your experiences as well.

Thank y'all