Cheaters

Where have you been Christine? I've missed you, it's good to see you again. Hope you'll be able to be around more often.

 

Thank you my great lady :heart:..I missed you and this place, too. I was in Africa, a little bit busy I am too at the moment.

 

as i've stated before, it's not the sleeping around that is the killer...it's the deception and lying. i've been in open relationships before and they have worked fine because we had open and honest communication. the minute truth and honesty goes out of the relationship then the deceipt and hurt start to take a key role. all this talk of having to have pussy on the side is just another term for having your cake and eat it too, which you can have if you find someone who wants the same and you are willing to allow her/him the same freedom.

 

You bring up very good points.

That's right your in Africa, how is it?

 

Bing

damn, I hate that lil msg, I must spread some you know what, before I can give you some you know what.

 

I would like to expand on my response in the male thread. Some of this may be redundant, & long winded, but bear with me. I feel that people go through phases & stages of their lives, so work better for them than others, some have many, so don’t & get stuck…I believe males go through a number of phases/stages that females just can’t comprehend because they are just that, females. The same would be said vice versa, but it’s these difference that push us & pull as apart, we just have to learn to live with them, in them & around them, embrace them.

I know I’m selfish (it’s my phase right now, I’m entitled to it), but I can do that, I’m single. At the same time, I’m an evolving person—hence, I am enter a new phase/stage, & my answers may all change a month from now. My present answers may all be the way they are because I just haven’t met the ONE, who knows, I’ll figure it out when I get there.

For instance, later on today, I’m headed to the city for the weekend full of debauchery of course, on the list of things to do: stop by a lounge has some many quality women (it flabbergasting)…which I’m sure I’ll eyeball a lovely…chat her up (with my charisma & charm of course )…hopefully I’ll get the info…& let’s just say I do for sake of my example. The said lovely & I go out a few times, I’m diggin her..she’s feelin me…she brings up exclusivity…I’m not going to lead her on, I’m let her know right then & there, “I’m not trying to be exclusive, I just want to hang out, if that naturally leads to me feeling like I want to be exclusive (funny how that seems to indicate just a difference in timing), then I’ll let you know.”

I am progressing forward in my present phase/stage because of my past track record, I am very self aware because I do self analyze, hence the reason(s) I evolve. I will always like things open-ended to a certain degree—not say that I like things vague; in limbo, less detailed, etc. I love detail, systems, & order, but if you don’t leave room for the possibilities where are you?....If said lovely actually stuck around for however long, who’s to say she wouldn’t prescribe to more of my type of thought process, or vice versa, therefore putting me into a monogamous relationship (but I may be so smitten with her, that I my wandering eye’s (not just one eye ;-)) may die…It’s all up in the air.

I wouldn’t have to worry about cheating, because I’m always clear on what I intend to be on. If I were exclusive with a companion, saw another women that I just couldn’t resist, I would more than likely break it off, or at the very least, tell her how I felt & what I intend to do about it. As far as side pussy, it wouldn’t be side pussy, it just doesn’t exist in my book because I’m always upfront about my endeavors. The more up front, the more bold you are, the better your relationships (romantic or non) & life will be, also, you don’t have to be a dick about it either it just requires well thought out dialogue & tact.

 

I have to say that's some damn tiny type FRESH, I had to increase it to keep from squinting.

I agree with you on the bolded part FRESH, but I get the impression quite a few men think that women don't want to the hear that, or aren't open to it. Personally, wouldn't bother me in the least if someone were to tell me upfront that they weren't interested in an exclusive relationship with me. I just need to know one way or the other, as long as he's honest, we're good.

I do think if you know that you aren't able, or interested in a monogamous relationship, then you'll save yourself and whomever you date a whole lot of stress and drama by just owning up to that early in the relationship, preferably before you get to the sex. I think that really is a conversation that needs to take place before sex, as a lot of people, men and women, make assumptions at that point, so best to lay the cards on the table first. Just my .02 cents.

Personally I've never cheated in a relationship, and I've had opportunities. My mind immediately switches over to completely monogamous when I'm in an exclusive relationship, and I just don't really look at other men. I've run into 2 men in my life that I actually noticed and was attracted to while I was married, 2 men in 20 years to me seems like a small number. But I knew them both as really good friends before they became attractive to me, and they had unique situations that I think probably made them more attractive to me specifically than they would have been had they not been in those situations. Despite that I was very attracted to them, they were willing, and my marriage sucked, I never truly considered cheating, it's just not how I'm made. When I'm in a relationship, there are lines that I just do not cross, no matter how tempting and there are no acceptable excuses that warrant making an exception. That's the standard I hold myself to, but it's not the standard I would hold anyone else to. I think each person has to decide for themselves what feels right for them and go with that. As long as you're honest with yourself, and whomever you're involved with, that's what matters most.

I will say I agree with Tarshi that it's not the sex that hurts, it's the deception. I've been cheated on, and I really couldn't have cared less about him having sex with other women, it was the fact that he blatantly lied to me when I tried to discuss it with him, and he betrayed my trust. I forgave him and tried to maintain the relationship, but I just couldn't get past the lack of trust, and IMO a relationship cannot survive without trust. If he'd confessed to me, or if he'd been honest and admitted it once I caught him instead of trying to convince me I was wrong and crazy, it might have worked, but the lying added to the betrayal was just more than I could deal with. I get that people make mistakes, I get that some men crave variety, I'm a forgiving person... but when I ask you a very specific question which indicates I have direct information to back it up, you better just tell me the truth. Because when you lie and I then have to produce proof to call you on it, you're screwed. You had your chance and you blew it badly. I consider myself to be pretty reasonable and fair, but you need to meet me part way, and lying to me is something I just cannot deal with, and he knew that.

 

Thank you ESPY for making the font comfortable to read:smt033
and thank you FRESH for that - that is exactly how I see how things should go.No empty promisses, no insane ecuses - just everything on the table.. Many men would be surprised by the outcome.

You rock FRESH!

 

But like you said bringing it up is the toughest part. I'm saying the solution to this is cheating but I think acknowledging why people cheat instead of simply dismissing it as weakness is a good place to start.

 

Andrae would you be cool with your significant other cheating on you...? Or would yoube cool with your girl getting some dick on the side (out in the open - open relationship)?

 

I wouldn't like it if someone cheated but if they wanted to get some side dick I would be totally ok with it. The only guidelines would be they use condoms, they make me aware of every encounter before they do it for safety reasons and they are only allowed to hook up with that person no more than three times in any given year. I'm not under the impression that ill ever be all one person needs and if I love them I would like to think I could put aside my jealousy for their happiness.

 

I think you left a 'not' out of the above sentence?

I think bringing it up is only tough because you're expecting your stance to be unpopular. I also don't think telling someone you aren't interested in an exclusive relationship, and then screwing other people is cheating. You were straight with them, they shouldn't expect monogamy at that point. If you bring it up in the context of seeking an open relationship, it's not cheating or getting side pussy, it's just an open relationship. That street typically runs both ways though, and if you're going to pursue sex with multiple partners, chances are she'll expect to be allowed to do the same. I doubt you personally would have an issue with that, but some people aren't as reasonable/logical about that sort of thing as you are.

As for why you feel the pull to cheat, I have a theory which I'm not going to go into here partly because you indicated you don't desire a female POV on that subject, however if you want to know what it is you know where to find me.

 

Firstly thanks for correcting me, I don't check my grammar when I'm at work lol, and this is a different thread so your opinion is more than welcomed. Sometimes I find it hard to have an honest dialogue because this topic is very emotional for many of the posters on here. Like on woman said "no one wants to think or feel that they aren't enough" which made it clear to me that a lot of the females couldn't talk about this topic objectively.

 

Well some, not all women have a more difficult time separating sex and love, therefore they view any sex as involving emotional attachment which is obviously threatening to their relationship. Not that the lying and betrayal isn't threatening, but if you think he loves the other woman, it's actually worse. That doesn't mean they can't be objective in a discussion, just that they are coming from a vastly different POV than you are. I'm guessing here, but I suspect you could be in a relationship with a woman you actually love, and happily screw any number of other women with absolutely no emotional attachment to them at all. That's because IMO men are able to better separate sex from emotion, there are women who can do that as well, but I don't think it's the majority of us.

In any discussion there's going to be people who are ruled by emotion, and therefore they are less able to objectively discuss the topic, however there are also people, including women, who can absolutely objectively discuss anything.

 

I agree that some women can but this forum has taught me that most of the women on here can't. The Tiger situation was a big eye opener. I'm not saying that they're wrong because people are entitled to their emotions but I was interested in an open dialogue where other posters wouldn't get angry at my views or at a discussion that basically illustrates that from time to time a man might want side pussy. The only reason I haven't said women want side dick is because no one has said that on here nor has any female been caught in the media recently.

 

The US statistics on percentage of people who cheat vary by only a small amount, something like 3 - 5% less for women. So I'd venture to say that though the reasons men and women cheat may be different, they both do it at roughly the same rate. So perhaps women are just better at concealing it than men? I also recall reading that when asked if they could cheat without ever being caught, the number jumped to around 70% for both men and women. So clearly some women also desire 'side dick', their reason just isn't typically variety, as most mens is.

As for objectivity in a discussion, you're going to get opinions that cover the full spectrum from fully objective to not objective at all. Too many factors play into people's opinions for it to be any other way. If you have someone who has been cheated on, or knows someone who was cheated on and was devastated by that, they are likely to bring more emotion to the discussion because they have first hand, or near first hand experience. That's no different than trying to have a discussion on obesity with someone who is overweight and unhappy with that, they're likely to be pissed right out of the gate. Same with trying to discuss alcoholism with someone who is a drunk and doesn't want to acknowledge that, or drug addiction with someone who is an addict. People tend to become emotional on issues that have personal meaning to them, or about which they feel very passionately, and often you don't have sufficient background on them to know why. At that point, it's best not to try to further discuss it, you can tell almost immediately that anything they say is so clouded with emotion that objectivity is impossible, so just don't beat your head against the wall. Stick to discussing it with the people you can have a productive conversation with.

That said, though many of the women did express a distaste for cheating for a variety of reasons, almost all of them said as long as the man was honest about not wanting to be monogamous up front they had no issue with it. While some wouldn't remain in an open relationship, they had no issue with anyone else doing that if it worked for them. I think that's objective, to be able to say 'it doesn't work for me, but if it works for you more power to you'.

 

I think you interpret the comments you got from the women completely wrong.
I think most women on here only have an issue with your excuse of genetics... not the "side pussy" thing per se..... two completely different things.
Most women on here are pretty darn open minded - the issue most took, including quite a few men - wasnt "side pussy", but blaming it on genetics.

The other thing you said - not thinking women can discuss the issue so you dismissed a whole gender by not acctualy take into account what they acctually said - you acctualy made yourself guilty of doing exaclty what you blamed the women of doing.

Do you, nothing wrong with it at all - but be straigh about it and own it...


When it comes to the Tiger thing... it went into divorces in general and as far as I read it - women were trying to give you new things to think about that you clearly didnt think of.. that you acctually said was valuable etc. I dont think a lot of women here do believe taking 75% or 50% or 25% of someones worth just because is honorable.. but it was an attempt to make you open your eyes a bit to issues that are important to at least evaluate.

I dont get the American system where you get money (and a lot of it) automatically - thats just plain wrong.. seemed to me most women on here agreed.

 

Cheating is fucked up. Simple.

 

Cheaters never prosper.

 

awwww...spunky bum, you know what they say...it's the thought that counts...!!!! thank you...!!! :smt008