I get so mad I sometimes. I really do hate G-d at times

LMAO @ God's way being a way of love. God is a psychotic murderer. If people today had the same thought patterns as the God in the bible does, they'd be.... wait, we do have people who think similarly. They're called extremist Muslims. They kill whatever they deem abominable, much like the God in the bible ordered his believers to do. Do you know what 'crimes' God considers to be worthy of the death penalty? Working on the sabbath, homosexuality, cursing your parents etc. Not to mention the fact that God once saw it appropriate to kill every last man, woman and child in a world wide flood. It is so obviously an archaic way of thinking, which is a direct reflection of the way people thought in those days. Ergo, the bible was written by man, and not inspired by the word of a non-existent deity.

God = Jefferey Dahmer

Me >> :smt068 (GOD)

I really just have to ask. Do you people really read your bible from cover to back cover and understand what is being said? Do you ignore the bad parts, because there are 'bad parts' and you can't deny this. Are the bad stories simply meant to be taken metaphorically? Say the story of Lot and how he volunteered his daughter to be raped. How can you read these horrific stories and still think of it as 'the good book'. If as so many believers like to claim, some stories in the bible are to be taken in a symbolic sense and not literally, how then do you decide what is literal and what isn't? I just cannot understand how people can actually believe these stories.

There is as much possibility of there being an afterlife as described in the bible as there is of there being an underworld ruled over by Hades. In other words, almost no chance 'in hell'.

 

I read the Bible, and I understand what I read. I believe in God, I have felt His direct presence in my life on more than one occassion. I have never once questioned whether He exists, or why anything that happened to me in my life happened, because I know all is His will and I'm human therefore seeing and understanding His 'big picture' is outside the scope of my abilities. However I have no doubt whatsoever that were I to know and comprehend His plan, I would find that how things happen is how they needed to occur.

I feel for people who don't believe in God because I wonder where they turn at the darkest points in their lives? The knowledge that He knows my pain, and that it serves some purpose, no matter how small or unseen, is what gets me through the worst. I also believe in the concepts of Heaven and Hell, I have no idea where I will end up because ultimately that's not my decision to make, my part is to do the best with my time here and hope I do the right things, the rest is up to Him. I did hear something recently that I agree with on that particular subject... "Hell is not for those who believe in God and try, it's for those that renounce Him and succeed." That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

 

I don't need a crutch, or an invisible friend to turn to when I'm in a moment of darkness. If believing that a deity is hearing your thoughts, and actively taking part in your life and improving it, then you're free to believe that. I just feel that such a belief is beyond absurd...

I've felt God's presence as well, or at least something that I perceived to be his presence. I wasn't always an atheist. I used to believe in God and I attributed both the good and the bad to his will. Being a catholic, eventually I realized that had I been born in an Islamic country, I'd more than likely be a Muslim. A person's religious beliefs will most likely coincide with their region's particular traditions. After taking that into consideration, I then failed to see how I can be sure of any one religion's veracity. In short, I realized religions were all bullshit. And if my entire idea of God was built upon biblical descriptions, which turned out to be false, how then can I be sure of what God is? How can I be sure that he even exists?

No, I'm 100% positive that God as described in the bible does not exist. And if you feel that that stance is arrogant, I ask you how is it any different than your stance on the non-existence of Zeus? It is no more or less arrogant than that.

And logically, there's no reason to believe that any creator exists, biblical or not.

 

i admire your belief in god gz, but i find it hard at times to understand how people can believe so blindly in something they have never seen. could we also explain the events above as things that happened because of the talented doctors that were there? if there is a god that stands in from time to time to intervene, why wouldn't this god do so for all those starving people in africa? wouldn't they deserve some sort of divine intervention? those people who are tortured, murdered, raped...don't they also deserve some sort of divine intervention?

chi, i've never understood the "be good now so you can get into heaven" bit. it makes me think that people are being good and kind and fair not because it's in their nature or because they want to live a life that is that, but because they believe that in not doing so they will not be rewarded at the end of their life. shouldn't people be living life as a good person, and treating each other the way we would ourselves like to be treated because it's just the right thing to do?

 

That is damn near word for word of what I say to myself all the time. That ALWAYS runs through my head.

 

yeah it does mine as well

 

This is likely the only area of my life where logic plays no part. It's faith... pure, simple, unwavering faith. Faith and logic don't coexist in my mind as there is nothing logical about believing in something you cannot see or touch, yet my ability to employ logic in no way limits my ability to have faith. To each their own. I have no issue with people who don't believe in God, that's their prerogative, I simply cannot subscribe to that point of view. You either have that faith, or you don't. I believe it's not something someone else can give you, or explain to you, you have to find it on your own.

 

It's because it's old-fashioned, out-dated scare tactics. Religion was born out of a need to control the masses and make them behave a certain way. I have far too much logic and self-governance to subscribe to such a notion.

 

If I could buy you a beer I would. These are my sentiments exactly. I wish there were my black atheist and agnostics out there.

 

Again two thumbs up!!!

 

The reason that there aren't more black atheists and agnostics is because as a people, we generally have a flock mentality. http://blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldknow/blacks-more-religious-survey-finds/

Marty Nemko also talked about this flock mentality in his article where he described the behaviors of the black students he taught. He said that there's white goths, white jocks, white geeks, whites who like rap, whites who like country, etc., but with blacks you won't really find a wide range of diversity. And those blacks who do differ from the rest of the flock usually face a terrible and undeserved barrage of insults and ridicule.

Anyways, I think Epicurus said it best: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

 

Fanatastic point. You have to experience the prescence of almighty God in your own. I was a former Catholic myself then I became this logical thinker/a philosophical student and joined the Atheist movement; I bashed God, questioned his existence, laughed at folks who had faith in him. I tell you what, my life went to hell during that period, so many bad things happen to me. I was even digging my grave and standing next to it so to speak. And then in my darkest of dark moment, I went down on my knees lifted my arms and cried to him.... He lifted my spirit, intervenued in my behalf, brought me out the dark and placed me in Glory road. Since then I identify with born again christians.

I walk by faith, not by sight, and Christ has been my sight since.

 

The bible was written by Man, at a time where we as a species had not evolved very far. A lot of the stories are obviously directly taken from other religions and regional myths as a way to "sell" Christianity to other groups. So no, I don't take the whole thing literally and frankly I don't pay much attention to most of the Old Testament because if it was all on point there wouldn't have been a need for Jesus in the first place.

Within the New Testament, I do believe it is all metaphor. If you look back to the time period historically, this is how human beings taught each other. We told stories, and those stories had messages, and that's how we taught each other messages. If you read the New Testament cover to cover, you can indeed find that there are themes to Jesus's message that are very clear, and they are about God's Way being the Way of Love.

 

I agree with you 100%. I don't act a certain way in hopes of getting into heaven.

I do often hope that heaven exists, when I see someone who I know was very good die, because frankly some people are so good you just want them to be rewarded in a way that this Earth just can't.

 

Nope.
Tarshi, as Espy put it finely, this is not something I am going to lecture you on and put a logical spin, you have to experience his power and glory on your own. Hope you get the opportunity.

 

I doubt the truthfulness of this story... I cannot see how a logical thinking atheist who understands why he is an atheist, can ever become a believer again. There are sure no noteworthy stories of supposed 'ex-atheists'. Sure, a person can claim to have been an atheist at one point, and later turned to religion but not one, as far as I know, has ever said anything to suggest he ever had a clear understanding of the arguments against religion and God. Not once has a noteworthy figure, say of Richard Dawkins', Hitchen's or Sam Harris' stature, denounced his well-publicized atheistic beliefs in favor of theism. What bothers me is that most believers who claim to be 'ex-atheists' do it to gain some sort of 'street cred', as Dawkins so eloquently put it in The God Delusion. It's almost laughable really.

You probably were an atheist in the sense that you called yourself an atheist, but I doubt you ever truly understood why. You were probably just mad at God LMAO

 

My thought has always been that we also believe blindly in love.

Take romantic love, for instance: we have no scientific understanding of long term romantic love. We have some information about infatuation and "chemistry" and attraction, but nothing about what a 80-year-old Woman feels when she sees her husband of 45 years. We don't know why some couples stay together and some fall apart. There's no reason to believe in such nonsense as "soulmates" or livelong love connections.

If you ask a lonely man, he might tell you he doesn't believe in romantic love. He might say that there's attraction, and infatuation, and sex, but nothing else that is real. And there would be no logical way of proving it to him.

But some of us believe in it. Some of us claim to have felt it. Some of us just pursue it.

My belief is that those moments when you would sacrifice yourself for another, that's God. When you feel love, that's God. When you care for another, that's God. We haven't been able to prove God or Love, but I believe they exist, and they are the same.

 

Well said....:smt038

 

Excellent post!!!!

 

As far as that flock mentality I have an opinion on why we are like that but I don't its very controversial. Yeah I quoted Epicurus a couple pages back but I didn't know who wrote it but I'm glad I know know.

But I really don't understand why people are religious...well I do, but if people actually sat there and thought about religion specifically Christian beliefs I don't see how you can still believe. I think people want to believe in God because it gives them comfort and the thought of everything just being a random occurrence as to why humans are here is something that most people have a hard time understanding.

Earth is one of 8 planets that orbits a star named the Sun. The next nearest star to the Sun is 24,000,000,000,000(24 trillion) miles away. Scientist estimate that is the average distance between stars. The Sun is 1 of 100,000,000,000 (100 Billion) stars in the Milky Way galaxy. The Milky Way galaxy is 1 of 100,000,000,000 (100 Billion) galaxies in the Observable Universe. Observable is what our telescopes can actually see. Scientist believe it is even larger than that.

Do you mean to tell me that of all the planets and stars in the universe God chose some random planet to send his one begotten son here to die for our sins? Would anybody here send their only son or daughter on a suicide mission to save the bacteria that grows on the floor of a bathroom floor in Giants stadium? Its a ridiculous analogy I know, but do you think something responsible for the creation of the entire Universe would care about what happens to the inhabitants on some minuscule planet, that orbits a minuscule star, in some minuscule galaxy?