Have society thrown men under the bus and now facing the repercussions of it

in the fight club Brad pitt stated in essence men have been raised by a generation of women and theyu no longer know how to be men. look at the girls of today they are just buck wild and the boys are with no leadership direction.


since women for the last 20 - 30 years have been getting primary custody and the single parent of the kids, have they failed and should men start to get automatic custody of the kids to see how they will fair out ?

 

No. Moving backward doesn't actually improve the situation.

And Chuck Palahniuk's whole point was that the protagonist remained unhappy because he wasn't whole and balanced. Tyler Durden was unbridled destruction, albeit useful for the protagonist until he found the power of his own will.

 

very well stated. here a point I have to state . What did you say ? LOL

I believe I understand in that what you are saying is that some people look for problems because they have a problem within themselves ?

But isnt trying to solve injustice and relieve the suffering of the weak is the duty of a righteous man

 

Whoo, there's just so much wrong here goodlove, I don't know where to start. So many incorrect generalizations:

1. Girls today aren't all buck wild, that depends largely on how they are raised.

2. Not all boys are without leadership or direction in their lives, again that depends largely on how they are raised.

3. No one should get 'automatic' custody of children in a divorce. The parent who offers the best full-time option should be chosen as the primary custodial parent IMO. That said, if both parents are good parents, I think 50/50 is the best way to go, but it does present challenges when you have to swap the kids back and forth every other week. I also think it's good to take the children's wishes into account once they reach a certain age where they are mature enough to discuss that. In Oklahoma children above the age of 13 are allowed to tell the judge who they want to live with and to have their personal opinion considered in determining visitation. Now I see some peril in that if you have a parent who tries to unduly influence the kids to choose them, but the children have a lawyer appointed to them to oversee their best interests and have to meet with the judge without their parent's present, and I'm sure the judge knows what to look for there. I think this is a good way to approach custody for older children, it gives them some say in their own lives, and it prevents one parent from keeping the child away from the other without just cause.

Basically you're talking about a child's life, it is not appropriate to give anyone a chance and just 'see how they'll fair out'. Children aren't to be part of some sociology experiment, and how they are raised has a huge impact on who they become. I think it's great if they have both a male and female role model, but that's not always possible or ideal. I know for a fact from personal experience that you can become a well-adjusted person without that dual parental influence. It's lovely that you want to be a part of your daughter's life, but you shouldn't assume that all men feel that desire, because I can assure you they do not. I've said before one really good parent beats two bad ones, or one good and one bad. The presence of an unpleasant, or indifferent parent in a child's life can be very destructive. In instances like that, the child is better off not having that parent in their life.

I also want to point out that not all women try to use children to get back at their Ex. Men are equally capable of that type of inappropriate behavior. If you're a good parent who loves your children, you'll do what's best for them regardless, so even if you happen to have strong negative feelings for your Ex, you realize that he/she is still your child's father/mother and as such they should be a part of your child/children's life. Again, that's assuming they pose no risk or danger to the child/children.

 

Excellent analysis as usual, Espy

 

Co-sign, well said Espy :smt023

 

for the past 20-30 years??? Serial?
It has pretty much always been like that.

Automatic custody to men?? You must be joking.
Should we have an experiment at the cost of the kid?

The best parent should have the kids, man or woman -but yes, it needs to be fairer.

 

stats woulds tell you teenage pregnancy is on the up's and Im pretty sure if they would put it out there that abortions are on the increase also.

the laughable thing is that when crap goes bad the first thing a person/commentator/talk show host states is where is the father ?
then the mom states he is this or he is that.

what will not be told is how slick the mom has been acting toward the dad. I have talked to plenty of men and a lot have regretted on walking away because they got tired of the fights to see the kid(s). they also couldnt afford the atty so they just got to stepping. They then turned around and tried to come back into the kids life later on but usually the kids are pretty salty by then. My ex has gone as far as forging my name and i had to get her arrested. The police are no help because I reported this last year and purchased my own handwriting analysis ($1000) and wrote the sheriff to do the job. thus I had to strong arm the cops in doing the job. I just gave her a misdemeanor just to get that part behind me. Lets not forget she had it notarized and shipped it to cali. also destroyed my credit.

she still have not figured out that maybe this guy is pissed and i should start being more cooperative. well nope she got worst.

Trust me ...Im not the only guy that went thru that. The problem is that things like this is never ever talked about in the media

the woman still have not figured out Im serious. It cost 300 just to put in the paper work for the court to schedule a hearing. then you will have to pay about 4,000 for the atty to do all the other stuff and show up to court. then you still have to pay child support on top of that.

Not to mention if it is an ammicable divorce the woman WILL get custody unless she states otherwise.

look at how weak the men are these days and how crazy some of the woman are acting ie like the porn business. The women in the porn business are quick to say I did not feel loved ect... when you get the info from them they eventually mention the father or the lack of.

is everything a womans fault ----no BUT at least stop autoing women the kids.

again women that do those type of things are never talked about. people portray men as evil and insensitve. The problem is that is never ever looked at.

Now, if the society is all messed up because men are not in the home then we have to look at all angles and put the blame on everyone but that will not happen because women are the biggest consumer and they should nopt be pissed off. they are aso the biggest voting block so if a law was to come down and say in an amicable divorce men can get the kid(s) auto like women have in the past. you know and I know it would be a big uprising in the women community. Men ,mostly, would be cool with it.

 

are you saying men cannot be just as good or better parent then a woman ?

 

Alright goodlove it's clear that no amount of logical discussion is going to change your perception. You don't want a discussion, you want affirmation that you're right and the rest of the women in the world are wrong. So let me just give you a few facts to consider when you are in a more reasonable state of mind.

1. Just because your wife was a bitch doesn't mean all women are.

2. Just because your wife keeps you from seeing your daughter doesn't mean all women do that in a divorce.

3. Just because women typically get primary custody of children doesn't mean that's a bad thing.

4. Just because men are not often awarded primary custody of children doesn't mean men can't be every bit as good a parent, and sometimes better than women can.

5. Awarding anyone automatic custody, as in custody given without consideration of the child's best interests, is an ignorant concept.

6. Bitterness is an unattractive quality in anyone. You say you just want to find a good woman, but with your present attitude you aren't likely to.

7. Bad things happen to good people, that's life, deal with it. Grieve, wallow in self-pity, go around moaning 'woe is me' and cursing God for a while if it makes you feel better, but at some point you have to grow the fuck up and move on with your life.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of people don't bitch and moan because they actually want help. They just want absolution. IMO you could end 90% of all conversations immediately by simply saying "What happened was not your fault and there's absolutely nothing you could have done to prevent it". People just want to be let off the hook.

 

No im not saying all women are bad. Im saying hey lets stop autoing the kids and let men have a shot at being primary.

also stop making men into villians.

example , Dr. Phil was on the morning talk shows and he was talking about the cheat gene. ( I think its stupid to say there is a gene that makes you cheat because that takes you off the hook for responsibility and being mature). whenever he stated the word cheat he mentioned men cheat because they have this gene and women need to be on the look out for this yadayadayada." he went on to say or better allude to that if a guy have a certain physical trait then they WILL cheat with no doubt. It is almost all black men have tails story.

Now come on. all men cheat and cant control themselves because we have a cheating gene. also this states that women can control themselves because they dont have the gene. women will cheat because they are unfulfilled or they are lonely ( oprah winfrey). oh come on. there is always an excuse.

all im saying is stop tghrowing men under the bus and share equally in the reasons on why things are going bad in society

 

You need to stop watching Dr. Phil and Oprah and accept the fact that there are no 'experts' on human behavior. People are individuals who behave as they do based upon their personal moral code, personality traits, intellect, and circumstances. Unless someone is exactly like you and in your precise circumstances, they cannot predict how you will behave and they need to stop trying. People need to stop looking outside themselves for the answer and instead need to look within.

Bottomline goodlove, there will always be people who look down on you for whatever reason, and they'll try to put a label on you because it makes them feel better... don't listen to them, prove them wrong, tell them to go to hell... just don't let them have any input or influence in your life. You give them that power, and you're the only one that can take it away.

 

the problem is it happens all the time. NOW when it is just a situation where two people are getting a divorce because of religion ( just picking a topic out of the air) one is baptist and the other is primitative baptist and they disagree and want a divorce over that ( I heard of dumber shit) then I can half way see that they may give primary to the mother providing all things are equal. It would be best if they threw in there let the father see them every day.

remember visitations is a very new in society. the guy who fought for that rite just died a few months ago.

so my question again ( reworded) is do you think looking at how the youth are looked down upon because of their so called crazy antics (drug dealing ect and pregnancy rates are skyrocketing and people are always saying because the father is not in the home is it time for fathers get the autoprimary custody like the women have been enjoying over the last few decades ?

My answer is yes and no.

yes because guys are usually more stern but at the sametime CAN BE just as sensitive as women when need be. so can women on the inverse BUT men are better at it. SORRY.

NO women are more nurturing than men but men can do it just as well. I believe just the every other weekend is no good.

It should be as follows:

1) every other weekend
2) every other day ( tues,thur) on the week of visitation
3) mon and wed on the week of visitation

believe it or not the courts have dictated to people when they will see their kids.

a friend of mine and his wife was cool with eachother but divorced and they still hang out with eachother. they stated that he was gonna see the kids every other weekend and have them all summer because he lived out of the state ( 1 1/2 hour away. plus some other BS they were doing) but the judge nixed and changed it around and stated he will get them during summer and on every other holiday.

That is BS. If they agree why is the court getting involved ?

 

VERY VERY VERY VERY true. The problem is that people will start to let it sink. ABC NEWS look at dateline did something that was funny but scary too. You will be shocked at what happened. You have to see it first before you comment on this part so you can appreciate what Im talking about . especially the Adolf Hilter part when they talk about leadership pressure

they did an experiement about peer pressure and people did things they will normally not do.

So basically what Im saying if you tell people long enough they will believe it

 

I don't care what the reason is for a divorce, unless it's because one of the parents is unfit or abusive, custody should be shared. The automatic custody agreement in Oklahoma is 50/50, if one parent wants sole custody they have to fight for it and be able to show just cause for that request, otherwise it's going to be jointly awarded. You can work out a visitation agreement, but the judge does have to sign off on it. In the case of your friends the judge may have been trying to balance the time for the children's sake, but just because the court ordered it that way, doesn't mean they have to abide by it. It wouldn't matter to me what the court awarded, my Ex would be welcome to see the children every day if he liked, not like they're going to throw me in jail for giving him too much access to the kids.

As for your comments on nurture and discipline, I don't believe those are feminine or masculine traits respectively. A woman can provide discipline as well as a man, and a man can be as nurturing as a woman. Gender specific roles in child-rearing are BS. You can be as soft or as hard as you want to be.

 

I agree with you quite abit on alot of things on the website whenever I see your post BUT this one I have to depart on. If I had to put numbers on it all?scores . when it comes to nurturing (out of 100) women get a score of lets say a 89 whereas a man would get an 81. close but women fair out better because it is generally their nature. generally women can comfort a child and a man with one arm tied behind their back standing on one leg. men need just a little help on that generally. when it comes to nurturing Im also talking about compassionate listening and suffering with the person who is suffering.

men tend to suffer with the other but they will more likely do it in private or in other ways that will not show. men will suffer and it tends to be more physcal and will give them ulcers and what not because they will hold it inside.

 

We'll agree to disagree on this one goodlove. Though I don't dispute that women may seem more nurturing, I think that's more a function of being raised in an environment that encourages women to embrace emotion, while discouraging men to do that. That's not as common as it once was.

 

I can dig that. But that has been for centuries . I believe it is more of a nature thang myself

Now if Dr. Phil is stating that men have a "cheat " gene then what he really should be saying that men should have more than one wife

 

Espy just owned this thread.

 

:smt081He's super serial.