Another cover "controversy":Essence Takes Heat For Reggie Bush Cover

Encyclopedia Brown
3/27/10, 12:06M
Halle Barry, Zoe Saldana, Garcelle Beauvais, and most of all Stacey Dash are sell outs. Why don’t you talk about that hater site?
Hypocrites

 

kigali- Life for Dummies
3/27/10, 12:31M
So basically Jill is saying she reacts to a black man being with a white woman the way any white racist would? Oh well. Instead of worrying about the black man with a white woman worry about your illegitimate kid who will NOT be raised in the same home with his father.
Thats the real bite you need to be worried about. Thanks to you JILL from Phil, the illegitimacy rate is upwards to 70% and all you can think about is your ego? Think about all the black children that arent able to see their father walk through that front door every night. Thats a bite. Thats a sting that leaves a lasting impression. Not some black man with a white woman.
Jill you failed. You got knocked up by your drummer, discovered her was playing too much play station and then ended your engagement, right after the baby was born? Your son come into this world to a broken home and all you can think about is a black man with a white woman? Shame on you.

 

My response to Jill Scott (Pt.1)

Is this some sort of hypothetical friendship, or did Jill Scott just write an article in a major magazine about her spirit wincing when she found out her new “friend” was married to a White Woman. Either she's lying for effect by creating a desirable BM archetype, or she just threw her new friend and his wife under the bus.

How did this reveal even come about? Did he just come out and say, Hey I married a Caucasian. This story sounds like B.S. Jill needs to say this story is made up or publicly apologize to her friend and his wife. Okay, that won't happen, but if a White celebrity wrote this about their friend and his/her spouse (something which would never have gone to press in the first place) after the initial shitstorm, the media would certainly have investigated/conjectured as to who this couple was, or if they even existed at all.

So what do you guys think? Did Jill Scott newly befriend this Black man with a White Wife and then summarily write an article about her spirit wincing once she found out/he told her she was Caucasian? or did she make up the story, create a "realistic" composite of a BM with a WW that would connect with readers, and give herself reasonable back-story for feeling betrayed (wincing)?....because we all know that Black women only have internal reactions to BM/WW, they only wince in silent recrimination to Black men they know, certainly never to random BM/WW who happen to be together in a public place.....

If this friend is real and Jill doesn't/didn't apologize, I guess her friend and his wife can accept this

I surely hope Jill is not purposely conflating “spirit” soul with “Blackness” soul? I say this because I rarely hear anyone say that someones spiritual soul has credibility, or that someones "soul credibility" has diminished. I often hear about Black credibility being diminished though, especially when it comes to Black men with White Women.

Without parsing this thing to death....

This paragraph is saying she's not a racist, that essentially Black people are not racist, and that we've never had a legacy of racism like White folks. It's our openness and lack of mistrust of White folks/outsiders that got us into trouble in the first place. She's absolving her upcoming POV (in a way) by mentioning the historical legacy and racism against black people, specifically the rape and defilement of Black women, and that this is the reason why some (I will qualify it for her) Black women have issue with BM/WW relationships. All this is in perfect reason, the brutality and racism Blacks have faced at the hands of Whites has had a damaging effect on the psyche of generations of Black people. I certainly agree with the belief that Africans have been, and are still too trusting of outsiders. I agree that Black people in this country to the peril of our culture have sold out aspects of it to a larger commodifying culture.

I wouldn't have such a discussion however without leaving out that Europeans have murdered,enslaved (understatement) other Europeans, that White subcultures/ethnic groups have also sold out aspects of their culture, and that while some of us would like to romanticize that our African ancestors were snatched up from their joyous native bliss, the fact is that many Africans were complicit in the slave trade. This is putting things in there proper historical context, something Jill Scott doesn't do in explaining why she (speaking for all Black women) has an issue when she's sees a “together” Brother with a White woman.

I will show how this lack of context is not an oversight, or just a result of limited space for her column, but part of a pathology (specific to some Black women but affecting the larger community) that sees things in a distorted historical context. I'm not a psychologist, nor do I have a degree in anything that would make me an expert in a pathology specific to Black women in the U.S.

This is just tit for tat. Black men are told in Books...white papers...by anybody... that our pathological attraction to White women is based on Slavery and a whole host of things related to White cultural dominance. They seem to conveniently forget that the majority of Black men are with Black women or that Black men had relations with White Women before slavery. I personally have never denied any of the reasons given by those people who would give their opinion on BM liking WW. I always say there can be one, or many reasons why someone is with or attracted to another person. Jill sites a number of harsh "truths" as the reason why Black women feel betrayed. By taking things out of historical context, she is masking her opinion as truth, thus giving me what I feel is license to refute her "truths" with an opposing opinion. I'm sure I would have refuted her differently if she presented this as solely her feelings on BM/WW, not based on "truths" that all Black women share; but knowing how such opinions are irrational,

she decided to present it with an air of psychoanalytical/historical merit (i.e truth).

I will offer my opinion to explain the pathology, not truth, behind why some Black women wince at BM with WW, it's not the reason Jill Scott says, her explanation is itself part of this pathology. For now I will call this pathology...mentality might be a better word... the I Can Do Bad All By Myself mentality. No, I haven't seen the movie, nor do I know what the title relates to, I think it does encapsulate part of the mentality I'm about to focus on.

Stay tuned....

 

I deleted my post cause I'm under the weather right now and whatever I'm trying to convey isn't coming out right.

XOXO, I love how you broke it down. I can't wait to read "Part 2".

I also can't wait to read other posters responses to what you've written...

 

Damn, Jill just got shit on.

 

Well, I wrote part of this after I first found out about it and after I transcribed Jills article (notice how we were ahead of the rest on this). I decided not to finish it because I wanted to focus my attention on where it deserves to be focused. But now that her article has gone sorta viral, I'm going to finish breaking down her entire article and the pathology the plagues certain BW.

 

You were on it and ahead of everyone else...

I'll be waiting to read more from you...

Thank you for the positive focus (The celeb family pix thread) :smt058

 

I agree! And in my opinion any Black Women who has a issue with a BM dating or marrying a white WW is no better than a racist because they are reacting to the the person's race.

 

Please note that's not me saying that but a poster on hater site--Kigali--whom I cut and pasted.

 

Basically, everything that makes BW "wince" and all the issues they project onto BM who date out--self-hate, slavery, etc. goes out the window when BW date/marry WM. Then it alchemically becomes "broadening their horizons/options." Period.

Waiting for Part 2 of xoxo's thesis. If there's any justice, it should be cut-and-pasted everywhere as a response to Jill Scott's (of all people!) article.

 

XOXO: I'd love to hear a breakdown of her tv interview from you.

 

My response to Jill Scott (Pt.2)

And there it is. The major driver behind this pathology: White women are on a pedestal. Not just on a pedestal but placed on a pedestal, placed by White men a.k.a Master. Unfortunately, to this day, if you polled a large number of Black women and asked them if they thought White women were on a pedestal, they would say YES!!! To a Black woman it might seem that White women are on a proverbial pedestal, and certainly it would seem that way to a Black woman in bondage. The White woman being on a pedestal is an analogy to White women having a higher social status than Black women. This is true, White women have a higher social status in society.

Like Kenny G intimated, White women being placed on a proverbial pedestal is only relative to how White men have placed Black women on a proverbial step-stool. A Black woman has seen White woman in society relative to her own social standing.

People have different truths, granted, but Black women like Jill Scott can no longer site their truth by knowingly distorting, forgetting to mention, or taken things out context when mentioning historical issues relating to other women in society.

A White woman's social status has for a long time been determined by her wealth and birthright. This varies from different cultures; some White women were on pedestals, some were scrubbing those pedestals, some were farming, and mostly all were mothers giving birth to children. White men idolized women according to his cultural standards just like Black men did in Afrcia. Look at my avatar as an example, the Birth of Venus.



Do I need to show further evidence of how European cultures have portrayed their women. All this was the cultural standard for White women before Black women set foot on the plantation. That's proper historical context.

The relative position of White women still remained the same to Black women though, no matter the realities of White women on the plantation, or in this country, and this position was determined by White men. White men placed White women on a pedestal and Black women on a step-stool.

Black men, where were we in this dynamic?

I think the best way to highlight my opinion on this is to reference the TV Host Toure's misplaced words from a week's ago: If you’re Black & dislike seeing Black men w white women, does it give you pause to know that the Klan agrees with you? I u’stand & respect the nationalistic dating perspective & abhor the Klan’s segregative impulse. But politics is making strange bedfellows. Many, many, many of our great grandmothers were raped in slavery. But surely a few of them were loved and surely some ... were cunning and brilliant enough to use their bodies to gain liberation thus fooling massa ... Of course most were raped, we know that, but some were sharp enough to trade that good-good for status or liberation. They are absolutely not hos. They're sexually heroic. They're self-liberating by any means necessary

Talk about not putting something in context and to start this conversation on Twitter nonetheless. I didn't make a thread on this because it wouldn't be a good look for this site (the Klan comment being the only decent take away). Toure seemingly got defensive about his IR and made these errant comments that can be interpreted as Black men wanting what was denied them. There is no way the power dynamic between White men can be construed as beneficial in anyway to Black women. Black women being raped, having relationships in slavery, or being "kept" mistresses during Jim Crow was not positive, but they were relationships that informed the psyche of Black women. This is the proverbial step-stool Black women were placed on.

Relative to the step-stool, Black men are some where in that mix, but I'm not going to lament about how we were treated by White men. It's our responsibility as men to stake a claim in this world no matter the opposition. White men have laid their stake. They seeded half of the new world, all the while keeping White Women on pedestal.....talk about faithful....their love for White women is so endearing.

This is all part of what I will call the Step-stool pathology (It sounds corny, I know). Black women have naturally resented the place White men put them in, they understandably have resented White women for being on a pedestal, and unfortunately and sadly some have resented Black men for our lowly place in this dynamic.

I say that with a heavy heart, because I know this is not the majority of BW, but it's enough to mention, and it seems it's okay to mention all the lingering issues Black men have due to slavery....remember tit for tat.

A regular Black man just being with a black woman, honoring a black woman isn't enough for some of those plagued with the step-stool mentality....you must honor her, put her on a pedestal the way White men put White women on a pedestal, or even above that...

Black men could never place Black women on a pedestal the way White women were supposedly placed on a pedestal because the pedestal is a fantasy. A White man can treat his woman good or like shit. The statement Black men ain't shit is all too commonly made by BW suffering from this mentality.

The step-stool is a marginalized component of the permanent underclass in which Black people have been put in by White society. Some Black women, due to their marginal historic place over Black men, are reinforcing this negative dynamic on one hand by saying Black men are no good and then on the other by saying that Black men shouldn't be with White women..... on one hand reveling in the notion that Black women can do without Black men and then complaining that there are no Black men out there....because we are in jail, gay, or with White women.

Talk about doing the Slave masters work..

and the worst is that some like to throw out this psychological garbage especially for White women to see, as if showing the psychological damage (airing out the dirty laundry) of Black people is some form of weakness between BM/WW couples who avoid issues of race at all cost. This psych conversation needs to go to the hardened "no good" gangster Black men who have supposedly been needing saving all these years. As bad as they are, they always seem to find a warm bed....

No Black man (or any man for that matter) can live up to this imaginary pedestal. This is the same pedestal they accuse Black men of putting White women on, and I'm sure my lengthy rebuttal to Jill Scott is just another example of BM putting/defending White woman on a pedestal. They talk of us idolizing White women, but let's parse Jill Scott's words on White women, out of context of course, but since when has the mattered:

Look at those superlatives. Who wouldn't want, or want to be like a White woman after that, it's sounds great!!!

They also went to the same schools together, ate in the same restaurants together, drank from the same fountains together, and rode on the back of the bus together. Their togetherness was not optional, it was Jim Crow. They went through their collective struggles together so we could experience the life of an average White American without restrictions.

there's a part 3

 

My response to Jill Scott (Pt.3)

So Jill is saying that when Black women see us in public, their silent winces and composed recriminatory non-stares are not jealousy or a more base emotion, but these women are somehow conjuring up Jim Crow.

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Black women that “wince” are not thinking about Jim Crow. Most likely these women with this mentality were not even around at that time or have any real knowledge of that period. I haven't been in a relationship with a WW for a few years, but I surely get the daggers when I'm with my White female friends in public...so children don't have to be involved.

Jill is elevating the status of a Black man because he is with a White woman. She doesn't know if they are happily married, wealthy, poor or unhappy. She doesn't know if the White woman is a with a “together” Brother or not. He's only seemingly together because he is with a White Woman. A good man will take care of his family no matter the color of his wife. A good man who is smart will pick the best partner he can find. Many of these Black men that weren't good enough for certain Black women come to find out that they are more than good enough for the White women they are with now.

The bed wasn't empty when you were making those kids with that no good Brother. How about working out the issues with him instead of getting in to whatever issues BM and WW might have?

Yes, talk about the historical psychological damage to Black women and then top it off by mentioning empty beds. Obvious pandering to the most insecure Black women. Any secure, thoughtful Black woman reading Essence should have stopped right here....because that woman has a man or if she doesn't, she's not pining over BM with WW because she knows there are many good Black men out there. She's not stuck in the negative mentality White society placed Black women in from slavery times.

I'm happy that she "digs" us (I'm sure she would find a stronger verb for Black people exercising the option to be with each other), but Jill totally negates her "understanding" of IR love with

I'm just Sayin'????

This is a lame cop out similar to those made by the recently banned blacgrl. Start of saying something potentially upsetting, highlight your misfortune claiming its the reason for your outlook, and then conclude by stating that it was just a harmless opinion.

How about saying the wince and the sting is a wrong feeling and that your rational understanding of Black people being open and free to be with who they want to is the culminating of our collective struggle to regain our humanity these last 400+ years.

Essence readers don't seem to put out when they see Black women with White men.... Her spirit should feel joy when shes men who would have been lynched with White Women.. Okay, that would be extremely far fetched, but at least she could have ended the article by giving a boost to these Black women who wince. She offers no solution to them, in fact she states: no matter the ointment, that has yet to stop burning.

That has yet to stop burning. You would think that she would come up with a solution to stop the burning. This is suppose to be a magazine that empowers Black women, remember!!!

There are no solutions to Black people stuck with this mentality. Black people, if we don't love ourselves, we will never find ourselves worthy to be loved by anyone else, even our own people. A Black person being with another “race” should be seen as an even exchange. Stop selling ourselves short in the exchange by elevating our partners, or finding value in us after the exchange has happened. An IR relationship built on self-hate is doomed from the start, it needs no input from anyone else.

Unfortunately, too many Black men attracted to White women feel the need to defend themselves against this scorn a la Toure. Why two consenting adults get together is their own business. That's all that needs to be said concerning BM/WW. Anymore is giving much attention to those who want to think we are focusing on them, when they are focusing on us.

This is not even about Jill, when I see the beauty in her smile I feel that her soul is credible and that she doesn't hold real hatred for the BM/WW union. I know that she really wrote what she felt, even though I think it's coming from a psychologically damaging place that she seemingly doesn't want to heal.

Time Warner Inc/Essence magazine for two months in a row have successfully stirred up controversy. My time should have been focused on them, they would never print White Men and Asian Women: Faith Hill on Why it Hurts on any of there non Black female magazines. Even if they wanted to, good luck finding a White female celebrity to do so.

Jill Scott did though, and her thoughts are only hurtful in that they show some Black women are still in enough pain that they are willing to do “Massa Time Warner's" work for them.

 

Her discussing her view about BM/WW overseas is interesting. It was a puff interview, he didn't even show the responses. I would have started off by asking her who this "friend" of hers is. But yea, my Black male intuition picks up that she's not to keen on us....but cest la vie

lol, at Karma noticing the commercial before the interview....coincidence....

 

exactly...
#1. who is this bm friend of yours? is he still a friend?
#2. if you feel this strongly about seeing bm & ww together, how do you feel when you see your sisters dating wm?
#3. if maxwell was dating a ww right now (hypothetical) would you still be on tour with him?
#4. with all the problems in the world, why have you made a stance with your name attached to it on this subject rather than other more significant issues that plague black women?

:smt009

 

Not at all. It's targeted and by design.

 

As a member of this board once had as their sig-line: "I've been brainwashed by European beauty standards". If my fellow sistas don't like it then oh well.

The REAL black man's kryptonite is the woman who will go to great lengths to both humiliate and emasculate him.



Y’all go ahead and marinate on that for a minute.

 

I guess those who just hated this relationship between Reggie and kim must be brimming with warmth and satisfaction now. To those who hated this BM/WW relationship I hope you feel vindicated.

 

But yet...

http://hater site.com/229163/puppy-lovin-little-justin-bieber-likes-the-chocolate-drops/#more-229163

 

I don't know why, but I'm actually happy for the lil guy.:smt102