Grow Up

Is it just me, or does anyone else have friends IRL who act like they are in junior high? I am talking people in there 30s and 40s. At work, they gossip abou each other, I have 2 good friends not speaking because one supposedly flirted with the other's boyfriend. These are educated professionals. I have resolved to say I just don't want to hear the crap. I thought this shit ended in high school.

 

oh, no, seems like 30-40 yrs old ppl are as immature as the 20 yrs-old ppl. so.... if we gotta chose... let's ge the younger ones

 

Okay I'm sure someone will hand me my ass for saying this, but I don't think that's an age dependent phenomenon, it's a female thing.

Back before I started my business, I worked in a medical practice and we had about 60 female employees and 20 males. The men were unbelievably easy to get along with, but the women... holy Hell, the amount of backbiting, underhanded, sneaky ass crap that went on was insane. These women ranged in age from 18 to 60, and they were all over each others business all the time. Now that certainly doesn't apply to all women, but I've found that the vast majority I've known get into the drama and if it's not there, they'll create some to spread around. I avoided them as much as possible, fortunately my office was located in the back with the physicians and so I didn't have to spend much time in their presence. I avoided the lunch room and used the physician washroom for the same reason. I don't do drama, and will go to great lengths to avoid it.

 

Im with you...
My team consists of 5 women and 4 men, between the age of 30-55 and the women all are involved in backstabbing, gossiping and plain evil pursposfully derailing eachother.
Somehow I have become the diplomat of the whole group - they all come to me to bitch. Which is sort of funny as I am a believer in knowing as little as possible when it comes to these things.
I never get involved in stuff like that because Im not stupid, if you bitch about someone else to me, you will bitch about me also...duh.
I tend to hang more with the men as I like direct, no bs, no drama

I never get stunned by the way women can be so unsupportive towards eachother.
I have a few close female friends, and they all are direct, non - bs no drama women and we never talk behind eachothers back - Im quite blessed with them
I know, its hard to believe8)

 

Funny how they always seem to have a sixth sense for the people who aren't sucked into their BS. Though I avoided them, they would come by my office to get the opinion of a 'neutral party' on a pretty regular basis. I decided I was like the office bartender.

 

The sort of thing tends to happen in female-majority environments. And though I applaud you for the courage to speak up about this almost 'taboo' topic, I have to tell you, you're FAR from the first woman I know who voiced her preference not to work with women.

 

You all have clearly stated the reason I have more male friend than female friends. I HATE the drama.

 

I prefer to work for men over women most of the time just because they are able to control their emotions (most of the time). That being said though, I've had some horrible men I've worked for who've gone out of their way to be rude and disrespectful, sexually harassing and have done some major bullying. Strangely, I've never really had any problems with women who have been at the same level as myself.
In my private life I have a very close group of girlfriends who are beyond supportive and loving to me and I would be lost without.

 

This is true for me too.

 

lippy prefers men over women in every aspect of her life...i have all women working for me as well as in our working environment it is all women...i have all male friends...i have women try to get close to me all the time and i prefer to keep them at arms length because even the ones that say they don't like drama are quite frankly walking, talking and dripping in drama...i have to be social every working minute of my worklife and that is why i don't facebook, twitter, myspace or even show my availability on yahoo...i have no time for it...nor am i interested in having people know too much about me...there will always be some interested party researching you when you prefer they know nothing about you:smt081

 

This is why I've ALWAYS gone for the hard, physical jobs where there are no women in my work environment, engineering, construction, etc. I think there are some women who thrive on drama, their lives wouldn't be complete without it.

 

If I could, I would work in those environments, too. LOL. Wait, huh?

I do work with mostly men, so my working life isn't as drama-filled as it could be.

However, I do think that women are getting a slightly bad rep in this thread. Yes, women seem to dominate the Drama Queen label, but I've known a few men who could be labeled as drama kings....the men who purposely allow psycho women into their lives and keep them there, causing them a whole host of problems.

Yes, women seem to be the majority gender in this situation, but let's not forget that there are some straight men out there who also thrive on drama.

 

LOL Bookie,

true, there are men that thrive on drama.. sure - I have 2 close male friends that clearly both has PMS I have known one over 25 years and the other about 16 years so I dare to make fun of them when they do, I loose my temper about once every 5 years

Although my team is 50%/50% men/women (including the manager, we are spread all over the US), I work mostly with men.

I talk to MD's and PhD's about our unapproved oncology drugs, scientific rationale and trials) and I think more than 80% of them are men... and the biggest primadonnas are, you guessed it, men.

These women that have become distinguished Professors and do clinical research, get published and invited to do oral presentations, really had to fight hard in a mans dominated world, and they ususally had to be better than the men to get where they are now.
It seems they are so seasoned by their "schooling" that they have for the most part adopted masculin behaviors to survive their carreer environment. I work in 4 states and I must say that my top 5 difficult/primadonna investigators I work with are all men.

Although I, in a earlier post mentioned the female drama in our team. There is acompletely other level of drama in the Academic Centers politics.
I was a scientist for many years before I went to the Industry (and know very well how hard you have to fight as a woman in a mans dominated world) - at one of the top Oncology Centers and the politics and career assasinations I have seen are stunning, exclusively done by men - of course, there are very few women up on the top.

 

i cut all those folks out of my life a decade ago, when i was in my 30s. lifes too short to hang out with immature folks

 

I think it goes like this: a guy in the work environment isn't going to waste his time talking shit because he knows it leads to a fight. I don't suspect every woman who talks shit assumes she'll end up in an altercation. Also, if a guy is going to engage in some poor conduct at work, it's probably going to be sexual harassment. I don't know why else any guy would go through the trouble of causing problems at work.

And yes, I'm talking on baseless generalities so don't take offense of this nonsense.

 

You are correct, there are many DRAMA KINGS out there who'd put some of the females to shame. For ME, I can only work for someone I respect. The kind of people who don't stand for a lot of bullshit and can spot bullshit a mile away.

Most of the people I've worked for were people in income generating positions, small business owners, contractors, sales people who work on commission only, etc. Basically, the kind of people who HAD to produce in order to make a living. The vast majority were men but you do have some females who are in those positions and can out produce most men actually.

Its just that this is a male dominated society and many men would be intimidated by women like that. Which is probably why you don't see many women like that because a lot of the men wouldn't or don't support them.

 

And yet the female minority you mentioned in those income generating positions clearly didn't need male support, now why do you think that is?
You're confusing cause and effect. The reason the VAST majority of primary breadwinners are men, despite all the equal opps regulations, is because the vast majority of women don't strive to climb the corporate ladder, to stay late at the office to finish those analysis reports, or to climb the barriers to entry into the high pay/high complexity professions. The reason for that is simple; they simply do not WISH it, not whilst society still holds a newly-wed man in contempt who cannot go out and feed himself and his wife, but doesn't tar his little lady with the same brush.

 

I beg to differ on that.

Here in the states you have women in positions that require a lot more dedication than climbing the corporate ladder, senators, governors, surgeons, etc. The corporate world is still, to this day, considered a white male profession. There have been many women who have "stayed late at the office to finish those analysis reports or climbed the barriers to entry into the high pay/high complexity professions" only to be CONSTANTLY passed over. Many times by men who didn't do any of those things. The only thing many of those men had that the women didn't was a good golf game and hung out all day, every day, with the good ole boys at the country club.

There are women to this day who still complain about the "glass ceiling" in corporate america which is why many have decided to go other routes. Other professions where their hard work and dedication pays off. I don't know how things are in London but in the states many women DO aspire to be corporate executives.

With all due respect and this isn't an attack on you but it never ceases to amaze me how men always seem to know what women want WITHOUT ever asking the women themselves. One of the reasons some men are considered great lovers is they pay attention to the woman, they don't automatically assume anything.

It ISN'T that simple.

 

Being a full-time mother requires more dedication than being a full-time Personnel Officer. But not every mother brings the same calibre to the table, now does she?

Only by the misguided and timid.

And been outnumbered 5-1 by the MEN who put the same work in and got beaten by another male colleague.

I'm starting to wonder now, were you recently made redundant?

And if they've got the brains PLUS the ambition PLUS the tenacity, they'll succeed. They almost always short of one (or more) of the three. Same here as it is there, I've consulted to almost a dozen American investment/comms groups, I've been to NYC about the same number of times on business.

Well Superman, now you've jumped from boardroom to bedroom in one single bound. On that point, I'll just say that a lot of women LOVE it when a man is forceful and takes the lead and what he wants. I'll go so far as to say they want the guy taking charge a lot more than the guy who just sits there and says, "Baby, turn me on.." (or whatever it is)

But back to work, pun intended. Women have no excuse, they simply, largely do not WISH to bust their hump in the office - fuck, I don't, that's why I got out of it. Ok, I got out to make more money than I could working for someone else, but while I was there, if I had to work later, I did it, I actively looked for extra responsibilities on my career, so as to make myself even more valuable. Women generally don't think that way, which explains why, despite equal opps legislation, they still earn the same proportion less than we do p/h as was the case in 1980.

Btw, I'm not actually saying that not wanting to work is a bad thing, to each his and her own.

 

I actually agree with most of this. In my personal experience as the woman who always stayed late, worked weekends, or did whatever it took to get the job done, I can say that most of the women I worked with were very vocal about their desires to put in their 40 hours, collect their paycheck and go home... but so were the men. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, to each their own. Women often have the added responsibility of being a mother, which is a job unto itself, especially if it's done well. I chose to work 70 hour weeks and I got paid substantially more than the women and men who chose to work 40 hour weeks, that's fair.

I don't see any reason why anyone should be limited. If you want to pursue a career or climb the corporate ladder, get the education you need and do it. If you want to be a stay-at-home mom, good for you because the work is hard and the pay sucks, but the non-monetary rewards are priceless. There may be a glass ceiling still in effect in a lot of workplaces, but frankly I never experienced it. If you are damn good at your job, you'll get ahead, unless there's someone better. Being the best at what you do will open a lot of doors, but that does often require long hours and a lot of hard work.