Antinatalism revisited

I've come to the conclusion that while many lives are worth living, no life is worth creating if that life will involve more stress than the very basic amount necessary for a functioning nervous system. I won't go into detail but I believe happiness and suffering are asymmetrical in value for at least two reasons. Suffering is qualitatively worse than happiness is good, it is better not to suffer than it is good to experience happiness. Also, the absence of suffering is good whereas the absence of pleasure/happiness is only bad if an organism has a desire to experience pleasure/happiness. Since an aversion to suffering is a negative desire (a desire not to suffer can't be satisfied if one isn't actually suffering, a desire to experience pleasure requires satisfaction and may lead to suffering if it isn't), causing someone to suffer is bad even if they don't have a conscious desire to avoid suffering. Again, I say that many lives are worth living because the pleasure and happiness we experience in life helps to mitigate our suffering but the opportunity for pleasure and happiness is only worth fullfiling if one has an existing desire for pleasure/happiness, it's beneficial to avoid suffering even if one does not have a desire to avoid suffering.

Sperm cells, egg cells and all non-conscious entities benefit from not suffering but they are not deprived of happiness/pleasure.

There are at least four reasons why I will not procreate :

1) The environment (or rather, the suffering sentient beings will undergo as a result of drastic, climate change. The planet itself can't be harmed). There's no point in reducing one's carbon footprint if you're just going to create more carbon 'feet' altogether. Climate change will be the result of many famines, floods, tsunami's, poor crops etc. and these things will cause great suffering. My child would contribute to this suffering from his usage of fossil fuels and the demand for environmentally unfriendly products that he, as a consumer, will contribute to.


2) There are many existing children who could benefit from the resources I would be willing to spend on a not yet existing child I could create. Even if I don't adopt, I could use all the money that would have gone into diapers, college education, clothes etc. and donate it to a children's charity.

3) This is not the kind of society I would want to bring my children into. They will spend most of their lives working at a job they find tedious and boring and most people underestimate how much of a bad thing this is. Half the products they consume will be linked to sweat shops, tortured monkeys or some kind of amoral, capitalist activity. People are mean at worst and insensitive at best, sooner or later they will be mistreated or victimized.


4) Even in my ideal anarcho-communist society where everyone was loving and compassionate and treated each other as equals, my children would suffer for some natural reason if not from interactions with unsympathetic, fellow humans. Whether it's chronic insomnia, the flu, an anxiety disorder etc., something will cause them to suffer.


I would consider reproducing if climatologists unanimously agreed that global warming was a hoax, every orphan on the planet was adopted and poverty was eliminated, capitalism and statism were abolished tomorrow and every human on the planet became a dedicated empath and if science somehow came up with a means to eliminate all unnecessary suffering, maybe some kind of shot soon after birth or a magic pill or something (then again, the very process of being born is painful). Even then, my child would eventually die and that would be a bad thing.

 

I understand what you're saying. And your use of the word "empath" is interesting to me....

I had some of the same feelings about bringing kids into the world in my teens and 20s.

I'm not trying to change your mind, but I'm just bringing up some points:

Everything suffers and dies. Plants grow, flourish and perish. Some insects are born and procreate and die all in the same day. It's called the circle of life. Without the "suffering" that these things do, this planet wouldn't exist....

Also, how do you know you aren't depriving the world of a genius who will come up with a cure for something or come up with a way to bring peace to the world?

Ya just never know....

 

Several comments:

1. You place the value on everything within your society.
2. Death is a part of life and is not bad or good - it just is.
3. There is no reason why your child would necessarily have any carbon footprint at all.
4. Without suffering, happiness would be meaningless. Happiness is only given value by virtue of the fact that we don't always have it.
5. Through suffering, many great insights can be achieved.
6. You have no idea whether your potential future child will feel the same way as you - they may be very thankful for life and be glad that you decided to procreate.

Having said all that - just do what you think is right for you. Make sure you are really honest with yourself, however. Your views are ideally formed through rational introspection and developed from a neutral starting point, without prejudice.

 

I cant give you rep yet... I love your posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!