Hamas has only themselves to blame

You are the one who brought your personal history with your Muslim ex into this. If you feel it is off limits, then why bring it up. I thought it was fair game because you are the one who posted it.

If it offended you, I apologize.

 

I have a Jewish cookbook.

 

I have a Jewish first name.

 

I have already read that book.

I never said anyone other than white people have overtaken countries. If you point out where I said it we can discuss it.

The point is there are still Palestinians alive who remember where they lived, where their grandparents lived, and all their families lived prior to them being removed from their land and it being given away to European Jews. And the Zionists have been extremely heavy handed and cruel in regards to them since.

I cant recall if I posted the news story here or not of Isitreal building a museum of "tolerance" on muslim graveyard? Isnt that ironic.

 

I noticed.

 

I really wish you would stop referring to Israel as "Isitreal". Is your dislike of Israel so intense that you question why it exists?

Israel was created so that Jews could have their own state to live in, in their original homeland, because they faced progroms and discrimination in many countries. And Jews were still living in Palestine during that time. It wasn't like they never had any history there. The UN partitioned the British Mandated area into two states. The Jews agreed to the partiton. The Arabs didn't and they immediatly attacked Israel. Israel was defending itself and fighting for its existance against five Arab armies who were committed to obliterating it

I find it ironic that you can deomonize Israel at every point. What do you think about Arab and Muslim nations. Do you consider those nations paragons of freedom and tolerance? If I had to pick between those nations and Israel, I would pick Israel every time.

 

I do not question why it exists, I know why it does. Empirialistic meddling. White colonial countries who decided to take land from brown people and give it to some white European Jews whos families hadnt lived their in about 2000 years in most cases. But somehow it is fair because Moses said God promised him that land.

Israel has been a rogue state since it began. It will continue to be so as long as they continue to starve the people they displaced to make room for more and more Europeans.


Do you know how these Arab states you mentioned became a paragon of freedom and tolerance as you called it? Look it up. Once again, empirialistic meddling. GB cutting up land and doling it out to who they wanted to rule it. Wahabbism is dominating the Islamic world because GB selected them and put them in power.

Yet according to your earlier post the cure for the Israel/Palestinian conflict is to allow Israel it select who represents the Palestinians. Because history has showed us how well that works.

And what gives Israel the right to select other peoples leadership?

 

Just a minute there Flygirl. To say the US is a white nation is to dismiss contributions of anyone in the US who is non-white. Our president-elect just might take issue with that.

I certainly do. It is easy to blame everything on the white man.

 

I did not call the Arab states "paragons of freedom and tolerance". I was questioning whether you see those nations as such, since you obviously see Israel as evil and diabolical and a "rouge" state. Did you know that there are Arabs who live in Israel and have voting rights and representatives in the Knesset? Can you say the same thing about Jews in Muslim countries? Did you know that you're fairly free to speak your mind in Israel? Can you say the same thing about Muslim countries?

When you have a terrorist orgainization, which is committed to your destruction, right next to you, running the government, that gives them the right to end the threat. When you have rockets fired at you daily from the terrorists who run the government, are you supposed to play patty-cake with them? Israel was more than generous to Hamas. They pleaded with them to end the rocket attacks. But Hamas would not. Now Israel is bombing them in retaliation. Israel should absolutely change the regime in Gaza. To do otherwise would be unwise

 

It does depend on what muslim country it is, just like it depends on what christian country it is, or atheist country.

Bullshit, they never opened the border. Gaza is called the worlds largest consentration camp for a reason.

Yeah, great idea, lets have a huge war in the middle east. Oh, sorry, we already have one that US started, lets have one they sanctions as well! hooray for that, ey?
Do you even get were more tensions and war there will lead us?
The U.N, the E.U, china, russia AND the arab-nations ar condemning Israel, and you think it's a good idea?

 

Yes, scylla, but they (UN, EU) also recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel, which the Arab antagonist nations do not. If that small step were taken and they would stop lobbing rockets maybe we could move forward with a land-sharing plan which would result in a Palestinian state. It has already been offered and rejected by the Palestinians.

 

Well, which Muslim nations would you consider to be free and open societies? Please tell me

Hamas is committed to Israel's destruction, by their words and actions. They need to realize that Israel's not going away. They should change their tune, stop smuggling weapons from Egypt, stop the rocket attacks, and recognize Isreal. Their belligerance hasn't gotten them anything but devastation

The Iraq war and the Arab-Israeli conflict are two very different things. Iraq never did anything to the US. They weren't firing rockets at the US. They did nothing to warrant the invasion of their nation in either '91 or '03. So yes, of course the Iraq war was a disaster. Isreal, on the other hand, has been fighting for its right to exist for 60 years. Their neighbors tried to wipe it off the map.

I think Israel should do whatever it needs for its security. That's what I think

Russia's calling for Israel to stop. Hmm. Well, when the world was calling for Russia to stop pulverizing Georgia, they told them to butt out of it. Did you condemn Russia for invading Georgia, or is it okay for them to be an aggressor because they criticize Israel?

Let me ask you this. If the US was not involved in the Arab-Israeli conflict, if they were neutral through the whole thing (which I believe we should be), and the same outcomes occured in the conflict, would you be so quick to criticize Israel? That is, do you only take the Palestinian side beceause the US mostly sides with Israel?

 

Take it away brotha's!! I love it when a man can say it better than I could have!!

 

eeeh.

 

This is bullshit!

Not to long ago, a canadian friend and I were talking about 9/11. She said is was stupid and dumb how americans was continuing to carry on about 9/11. Other nations have been the victim of terrorist attacks and if they did half the shit the U.S. did, they would be subject to all kinds of world sactions. Her point was that 9/11 was over 7 years ago and its time for the U.S. to "get over it". But because its the U.S., the rules are different...and anyone who pretends otherwise is an dilluding themselves. The U.S. she said, is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that everyone is determined to ignore.

Hell, at one time, all of north america belonged to native americans, but as flygirl alluded to, we have taken a "get over it" stance with them, also.

My point is...Israel shouldnt even exist. Yes, thats their homeland, and at one time their ancestors did live there. But that was then, and this is now, and the world should have told them the same thing the U.S. currently tells native americans and what the rest of the world needs to tell the U.S. about 9/11...GET OVER IT!

But thats neither here nor there...if youre gonna call arabs and muslims terrorists, then you must call jews thieves for stealing their land.

Look at it like this...the U.S. and the rest of the world would have never displaced jews to create a nation for muslims.

As toronto23 said, "there will never be peace" because the U.S. will always be the 800 pound gorilla lurking in the background...pulling the strings while hiding in the shadows...making sure israel is always better funded and precieved as the victim.

 

http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.com/2008/12/happy-new-year-in-stark-contrast-to.html

..cues "Imagine" by John Lennon

 

Are Hamas's aims realistic though? Rightly or wrongly Israel exists, its not going shrink and dissappear.Is it really a realistic goal, to say you want to create an Islamic state in place of israel..when they have USA backing..It just isnt going to happen.

 

You do realize, sir, that the land which Israel lies on was taken away from the Palestinians by the Europeans and America in 1948? You do realize the injustice of that don't you? You do realize that in this country our media, especially in the last twenty years, never gives the complete story and disregards facts and history, right? I'm not claiming that the Arab or Muslim countries are the good guys. But spare me your pollyanish view of Israel as some innocent victim which has been unfairly targeted by bad people. Nothing in this world is that black and white. And that's why I'm glad Europe is a lot more skeptical of Israel because that's needed to counter America's favortism of Israel. That balance also works in terms of how Europe views Muslim/Arab nations compared to how we Americans view them.

Hey, both sides need to stop this bullshit because its a direct cause of almost all that has gone wrong in the Middle East. Both sides are to blame. And yes I do understand Israel's right to defend itself. But Israel has to understand that when your nation is forceably formed by outside forces in a Arabic nation and those Arabs that lived there then essentialy become refugees, well, prepared to be hated and targeted for 60 damn years. That's the price. I don't cry too much over it because Israel has had America and its weapons in its damn pocket for all of those 60 years.

And I don't want to hear any nonsense about that territory rightfully belonging to the Jews. When does religion determine territorial rights? And how is it that just because a people had had a former association with that land it becomes justifiable to use force to make it theirs once more? Hey, if that's the case maybe in 50 years the forces of China, India and Russia will take pity on Native Americans (which many indigenous Hispanics are) and through force make half of our nation(USA) into a new country for the original Americans. Yeah, I'd love to see how future, displaced citizens of the USA would take to that? I'm sure the wahoos, rednecks, religious nuts and NRA members would be shooting rockets into the newly formed country every damn chance they got.


If the western nations of the world felt so guilty about what happened to the Jews not just in WW2 but for previous decades in Europe, then perhaps they should have given Jewish people half of Germany as their new territory. I'm sure it would have led to less strife.

 

Good luck finiding much about this story from the American press.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/24/israel


Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing



<LI class=byline>Chris McGreal in Jerusalem <LI class=publication>guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 24 November 2004 00.02 GMT

An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.


The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

A tape recording of radio exchanges between soldiers involved in the incident, played on Israeli television, contradicts the army's account of the events and appears to show that the captain shot the girl in cold blood.

The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.

But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".

The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.

The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post's operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.

The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward."

Operations room: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.

Captain R: "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah's hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times.

On the tape, the company commander then "clarifies" why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

The army's original account of the killing said that the soldiers only identified Iman as a child after she was first shot. But the tape shows that they were aware just how young the small, slight girl was before any shots were fired.

The case came to light after soldiers under the command of Captain R went to an Israeli newspaper to accuse the army of covering up the circumstances of the killing.

A subsequent investigation by the officer responsible for the Gaza strip, Major General Dan Harel, concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically".

However, the military police launched an investigation, which resulted in charges against the unit commander.

Iman's parents have accused the army of whitewashing the affair by filing minor charges against Captain R. They want him prosecuted for murder.

Record of a shooting Watchtower
'It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward'
Operations room
'Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?'
Watchtower
'A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death'
Captain R (after killing the girl)
'Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed'