blk men wht women for interviews

Understand what I’m saying [trying to say]:
I don’t know your attraction to white women. Only you know that.
However, like all male female relationships – IR’s are influenced by the environment.
I’ve always tried to put the IR in the same class as what is considered “normal” because in my mind they are normal as is non-IR’s.

Only you can speak to the degree that the media has affected your thoughts but we cannot discount the power of the media - Indeed it is those very people who are unaware of that power who will be influenced the most by it.

Also as I’ve said before, the media is just part of the equation.

 

Wedlock,

This is absolutely fun. You and I are throwing down on these debates. You got my mind ticking. Before I answer. I am going to contemplate what you have said and respond later. I feel like I am in a coffee shop and we are just going at it. All I need is some Bob Marley in the background. Having fun. You are the first person on this site, I actually had to go to the library, seach out articles and dissertations and learned something new--the Multi-regional theory.

I feel like my mind is being challenged and strengthened. This is really enjoyable.

And

Oh, Oh designer, you go head with your bad self.

Peace.

 

Dealing with prejudice

Designer:
I am picking up what you're laying down.It makes sense to me.I wasn't discounting the media's potential influence-I was just saying to "jeverage" that I didn't feel the media influenced my attraction to white females.I understand the media is part of a given environment.I also know you don't know my attraction to white females, etc.I think my response was misdirected, "jeverage" from Grand Rapids and I have been really going at it debating whether or not race is a biological fact.You just got caught "cross -post." I apologize for the akwardness in my response.

 

^^^ Cool...

 

Wedlock,

If you notice, I did not just say the media. I said it plays a major role, but not the only role. In fact, most of what I learned about colorism and feature prejudice came from the mouths of Black people from the family, neighborhood, and school. In short, colorism and feature prejudice is entrenched in the Black community, and the media makes it no better. ALL of us has been exposed to it in one form or another. The sad part of it is that we consider this pathology as normal b/c it has existed so long within the Black community. In fact, my exposure began as long as I was a young child.

Examples:

1. Many Black women relaxing or press and curling their hair not just to have a style, but to hide the fact that their hair was not fine, silky and straight as the what a White woman supposedly suppose to have, which for many WW is not the case either.

2. Black children in the neighborhood and in school making derogatory statments about each other regarding having big lips, "nappy heads", being "Black and Ashy", and having big noses.

3. Many Black people favoring lighter skinned children, and even some having the gull to question why one would desire to have a dark skinned child. This has happened to me. I use to say, in order to see where the person's head was at--I wanted beautiful dark-skinned children. Some responded that was a new one--never heard of any Black people they knew who wanted dark skinned children. Others would state, it would be hard on that child if the child was dark and why would I want to put my child through that. Also, you have Blacks who desire dark-skinned children and slam lighter skinnned children and people, in general. However, this case is more of the exception than the rule.

4. From my personal observations, those who are extremely light, due to being made fun of their color and having their Blackness questioned tend to go for brown to darker skinned people. I find those who are extremely dark, who have been made fun of being a jigabo, a buckweat, and etc... tend to go for light and White. In their minds, whether it is conscious or subconscious--Dark-Skin and Blackness is viewed as negative.

These are just a few examples of how colorism plays out among Black people within their community without the help of the media. I personally believe both the media and the Black community are 50/50 in perpetuating the White American standard of beauty.

Now, in your case, I cannot read your mind. It is very possible that you have come into your own awareness of what you desire is physically appealing. I cannot tell you how you think, that is not my place. All I can speak on is patterns observed among the population, and people are more likely to follow a "default" form of thinking than to stand back and question what they have learned and "retrain" their mind from what they have learned. Many don't even bother to even entertain the idea, that most of what they think has been a form of social programming. Also, many people may even recognize, but refuse to change b/c they may think it is too difficult, it is too late, they are comfortable, and/or they like what they do, happy and content, and so, they let it be. You must understand that considering the fact that your preference falls in line with American standard of beauty. Considering the history of colorism in the Black community and the media's promotion of the Standard of Beauty in the U.S. coming in a White package, your statement of "coming into your own awareness" would be highly questionable. Only that statement would be more legit if the other factors did not exist. However, you "coming into your own awareness" may be the case, and should definitely not be ruled out b/c of the other factors in place either. Therefore, people should just accept your position without continuely challenging you to get you to admit to something that may not be the case. In the end, I can care less about what anybody does as long as I respect you and you respect me and I don't get in your way of pursing happiness and you don't get in my way as long as it is not hurting anybody.

Also, I still hold the position, people's minds our powerful beyond measure, and what we learn can surely be unlearned. It may not happen overnight, b/c you are actually undoing over 19, 20 or more years of other people thinking for you. In the end, it can be done. I use to have a strong sexual preference for very dark-skinned Black men; in my case, I felt that the preference hindered my options and were not in line with my beliefs. Also, I came to the conclusion, that most of the reason for this preference was due to social programming from media, family, and friends--at that time in the 90's dark-skinned BM were at the peak of being highly favored. Thus, I consciously made an effort to "retrain" what I thought was sexually appealing. Eventhough, I still love dark-skinned men, I just learned how to include others and I can find them equally as appealing to me as any dark-skinned BM. But then again, that is my story. I truly understand this may not apply to your situation. For you it is natural, for me, in my case alone, I considered it social. Thus, we are coming from two different view points. :lol:

Peace and Blessings.

 

Dealing with Prejudice.

Miss Grand Rapids:
I think you're correct in that our own communities perpetuate a potential for being influenced.But I am glad you acknowledged that with each individual,so goes an individual case.
I could care less about what the media says, my friends, family, etc, with regards to whom I am attracted to. I am attracted to white women because feels natural for me , and it's something that I awakened to and to acknowledge within myself in order to be healthy.I couldn't pretend to be something I was not. It doesn't matter to me what's popular, what some "Amercian" standard of beauty is.That's "America's" ball of wax to deal with, but not me as an individual.Others may like what I like, and that's cool;but if they don't that's just as cool.I'm going to be myself because it's all I can be. That's why I said that "kinky" hair, blue black skin, flat noses, whatever.....I say that's just as "American" as whatever one wants to name as the opposite.Those women live in America too, so they are just as much a standard of beauty to me. I don't care what some one else thinks is beautiful because I am seeing with my own eyes and heart.Remember that what I like isn't mainstream.I don't go for the women in the media that are supposed to be so called 'beautiful" or models, it's not my thing.
Heres' a question especially for my black sisters:
How come when a white man dates outside of his race, it's just his choice, but when a black man does it, I've been 'influenced by outside sources?' Can't a black man make up his own mind about what he likes just like a white man? I think I can.

What I'm saying is that in the end, there seems to be somewhat of a double bind - because I sometimes get the impression that the only way a black man is deciding "freely" is if he stays within his own race, and to me that's like mental slavery.I'm not saying you're doing this, Grand Rapids, I just mean to pose a question in general to my sisters.

Why should anyone, black men, white men, asian, etc, even have to give a second thought to what feels right to them? What I mean is that people have the right to question motives if they want to, but what else can a person say if the question is answered as intellectually honest as possible?
This discussion between you and I as I said before offers insight, and these kinds of brother sister dialogues are important.Let's please keep the communication flowing.

 

Wedlock,

It is not about the exact types that are being presented in the media. What you are speaking of is trends. However, regardless of what trend is in, it is presented in a White package. In the Black community, it is not about the specific current trend of the WW (skinny or supermodel, "fine" features, bone straight hair--blonde), but a beauty marker among Blacks is just coming to look close to a WW period, regardless of the specifics. It is only recently women of color making a significant impact in the beauty world. However, for the most part, they are still limited to high fashion runway shows or prints, and sometimes department store adds. Also, as we see on hip-hop videos and R&B videos (however, the majority of the videos portray these women in a negative light, and see them more as sexual objects and sexual permissive than beauty icons. Also, when there are videos that show women of color playing lovers, wives, and girlfriends, the majority are very light, display "Caucasian features", and having long, wavy or straight, fine to medium thick hair").

Even in BM's magazines, it is very rare or close to zilch to see a brown or dark-skinned BW having a broad flat nose, full lips, and a natural (kinky) hair whether it is in a fro, twists, or locks--all in one in the magazine. Usually, these women have a so-called "Caucasian" feature or features.

Also, in answer to White men doing what they want. Believe me, WM get questioned just like BM do on their choices of a mate. However, WW do not make a public fuss through the media about their distaste of what WM do. In the end, WM don't get questioned b/c they are in power and run most of the media outlets. BM are not in power, and they do not run even a small percentage of the media outlets. However, that doesn't mean they cannot have ulterior motives for their choices in mates, regardless if it is discussed through a public venue. WM can be just as influenced by outside sources just like BM such as his peers, what he watches, and the persistant taboo of dealing with women of color. Or it could be his sense of "awakening to his awareness" of his preference for women of color. I would not ask why BM can't just be viewed that they are making their own choices. My question would be--Why are WM exempt from the issue altogether, when they may display social influences in their decision making? What makes them above BM to not be questioned? Answer, power. They have it and BM don't. End of story.

Another reason why they may not be questioned, WM do not have a reputation like BM for stating in magazine and T.V. interviews their preference for BW, AW, or other non-White women as BM have for WW. Furthermore, no other ethnic group of men in the U.S. besides BM praise the beauty of other women above their "own" women most of the time, consistently and obviously as BM through media outlets. If they do, again, it is a particular type of woman who comes closer to the White American standard of beauty than one that does not.

Also, WM may not be questioned--publicly b/c unlike BM, they do not come from a history of colorism within their community as BM have come from.

Finally, the majority of BW do question the motives of WM who go with other non-white women and even themselves. They do not think it is just their choice and that's the end of it. In fact, the majority of BW do not trust the motives of WM with BW, and, therefore, do not desire to date them. However, they are not going to write an article about it or do a show about it, b/c they are BW and want BM. What WM do is of no concern to them.

Peace.

 

Dealing with Prejudice.

Okay Grand Rapids:
I see where you're coming from as a black woman, and you're right in that many black women don't go for white men the same way black me go for white ones.
You're a woman,and I am a man, so I must concede to what you're saying and defer to you-because you're more qualified to speak on it.
Now, I still disagree with you about black men putting women of other races above their own.Recall the government statistics I cited.Marriage between black men and white women is at most 5 out of every 100 registered marriages in the United States, and even less in Britain, France, and Germany.I mean, to me, whether a sister has light skin or not, she's still a sister. Black people have 38 different skin tones, and as I was saying before-whether the woman is blue black with short kinky hair and a flat nose or not, she is still part of America, and therefore a "standard of beauty" in my eyes. If a brother prefers a lighter skinned black woman because they secretly wish the woman was white or they want to maintain the "staus quo" while enjoying something "as close to white" without going over the color line, that's their own issue.I thought you were saying that you didn't believe there were truly Caucasian features anyway, so if that's the case,maybe what you're speaking on is a "construct." Just kidding, I know what you mean when you say this. To me, Vanessa Williams, Halle Berry, Lena Horne, whoever-are black women just like Tracy Chapman, Whoopi Goldberg, and Iman.
Now as a sister, back in the 90s light skinned brothers were not considered as "black."Did you buy into that? Where as back in the 80s Chico Debarge, Georgio, and Prince were more desirable because they were a black,but not "too black." To me colourism is just a shameful poison that we as black people need to find a healing for.
But all I was saying in my earlier thread is that I don't care if the lady I'm attracted to is supposed to be on TV, radio, billboards, it doesn't matter.That wouldn't be why I was with her. That's why I say in the end my choices come from within.And again, I bet there are brothers who DO want a blue black sister because black is beautiful in the first place.Try and guess the age of a dark skinned black woman. If blue black sisters are alone, then who is getting them pregnant with so many kids?I see dark skinned black children all over too.Somebody must be getting busy with those ladies.
Oh yes, good point about a white male's control of the media, therefore the white man tends to promote his own race.But don't forget about your other point, in that a lot of white men deep down may want a taste of "brown sugar."Check out the slave days when our women were raped.Check out Strom Thurman and others.Also, let it be known though, that you DO control your own world within.And there are enough black men that wouldn't touch a white woman with a 10 foot pole to testify to this. :wink:

 

Wedlock,

You don't have to explain your choices in a mate to me, b/c I never questioned you about your choices. I was just stating there are many possibilities for why people make their choices, I would not limit it to one. I want to reinterate that point. When I mention social programming or colorsim this is just considering different possibilities. As well as it is possible to just have a natural attraction to WW and it has nothing to do with social programming. I was addressing the fact, that you have those who claim it is just natural attraction, then others who claim it is social programming. The truth is, it could be one or the other, or a combination of both. Nothing that people do is Black or White, we are too complicated for that. I believe I am leaving an impression that I am questioning you. We are just having a general discussion about why people do what we do.

In the end, if being with a WW is the best decision for yourself, then that is all that really matters. You should be respected for your decision without criticism.

Peace.

 

Dealing with Prejudice.

Thank you, Grand Rapids, and all respect goes right back to you.

Good communication is the key.Thanks again for the discussions we've had.

 

I am so tired as to why people think that if you are with someone of another ethnicity, race or creed, that one can not possibly have feelings based on mutual interests or compatibilty and that it has to do with skin color or other under-lying issues whether positive or negative.

I agree, your film will have a very lop-sided view because you are going in thinking that it is a certain way. If you want the TRUTH of all of it then see ALL the views and not just your own biased one's.

 

The point for him is to continually promote divisions by inferring one group of women is automatically inferior to the other. Yet I'm sure he doesn't want the same comparisons to other men.

 

Let's see if it will be un-biased.

 

That creates controversy, and controversy sells. It's just a fact of life.