This Really Pisses Me Off!!!

Do you ever notice that Oprah RARELY ever have 'real' Black men on her show. She only has the schmucks that cheat on their wives or the Black men who are on the Down Low!!!!!??????!!!?????!?!?!!??!?!

 

Not only that, but they are LOUD, OBNOXIOUS and MORBIDLY OBESE!!!! Can you say Mammy? Aunt Jemima? Rochester?

 

Now now with the Oprah bashing. She was one of the first to get behind Obama (at the risk of offending her audience), she produced "The Great Debaters" with Denzel and Forrest (a positive black movie), and she helped build a whole subdivision after Katrina, moving quicker than the US government. I've also seen Chris Rock on her show, is he not real? Plus she won't have any asshole rappers and their ghetto bullshit on her show. She's more down for her positive black men than most of her audience if you ask me.

 

Okay, you have a point there. I was trying to say non-Entertainer Black men I do remember when they were promoting Crash, I think Ludacris was clowning do the fact that Oprah wouldn't interview him on her show despite the fact that he was becoming a "serious" actor and even using his real name. I think 'Fiddy' was complaining about that to.

 

Oprah

I have noticed Oprah doesn't go for the thug mentality. She does help the underprivilaged-but she doesn't tolerate the ghetto mentality. Go Oprah!She doesn't glorify rap that calls women bitches and hoes and I say good for her!

 

God, I'm so tired about the bitches and hos complaints. Rap, or at least gangsta rap, is an equal opportunity offender. Every group gets attacked by gangsta rap. But the media and people of standing in the black community only complain about demeaning comments directed at women. Do they realize most of the negativity in the music is directed at men, and by that I mostly mean black men? The "N" word is passed around non-stop directed almost exclusively at black men. And most of the violent content is about hurting/killing other black men. I don't ever get wrapped up or feel the need to join in the condemnantion of misogynist rap lyrics. When the concerned members of the media and the "leaders" of the black community express as much outrage about demenaing lyrics directed at black males then I will consider joining in on the condemnation. Until then they can all fuck off with their one-sided concern. And since I don't and never have purchased gangsta rap music in the first place (and rarely buy any rap music at all) I feel perfectly justified in holding out from joining in on the attacks against gangsta rap artists.

But here's one suggestion for all those in the media who worry about this negative rap bullshit: start helping produce more black male singers. You know like back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s when black male singers stil dominated the R & B charts and the music was actually, well, pretty good. When you don't give guys options, when you constantly reenforce that the success of young black men in the music industry is going to be through the performance of a certain style of hip-hop music should we be surprised that more and more of them appear to be getting into the gangsta-rap biz almost exclusively? If white and black record companies as well as shows like American Idol are only interested in pushing forth black female singers, then you further push black males into a box known as rap. Isn't it bad enough that black guys are already being pushed almost exclusively into an athletic boxes known as basketball and football? Its all about options and showing young people that they have options. Period. But the same fuckers who whine about gangsta rap will go out and buy a Lil' Wayne albulm in a heartbeat and keep that pattern going.

Also getting back to Oprah the only black males she put in the spotlight on her show are those who have already found wide success. In other words she only has time for black men who are celebrities. But does she seek out black male doctors, psychologists, scientists or other black male leaders in an intellectual field? No, not really. Does she ever put a spotlight to young black male authors looking for a break? No. In fact the only time Oprah went out of her way to bring in a black male "expert" and author of a book was that flaming gay black dude who wrote that scare book about black men on the DL. This guy was a chump who didn't even do any true scientific investigation to back up his wild conclusions. But it didn't matter to Miss O. She bypassed a bunch of good journalisst who covered the whole issue in the Washington Post and the New York Times Magazine months before she brought in the flaming gay guy. You see Oprah wanted someone who would further perpetuate negative black male stereotypes as well as bring issue to another injustice being done to black women everywhere. So Oprah can go fuck herself as far as I'm concerned.

 

Celebs.

My main problem with Obama is that he needed that push from Oprah in the first place. I didn't want O to start picking our presidents.

Also there is no badly overused term than "positive black movie" or "positive black anything". Black people keep seeking positive on-screen portrayals but don't put as much weight on quality scriptwriting and directing. The vast, vast majority of so-called "positive" black movies that I have seen are dreadful.

 

EXCELLENT POST!!!!!!!! That's what I meant when I used the term 'real black men'. Of course the media will always be more sympathetic towards black women. Hell look at Ruben Studdard. Compare that to how far they had pushed Fantasia and Jordin Sparks!! Black Male singer...HA! Do they even still exist? What passes as 'singing' these days is all crap! Again with Oprah, like I said earlier, she'll interview the fag who cheats on his wife, but never a young black male author or entrepreneur. Of course she interviews Kirk Franklin, who was there to announce to the world that he was a porn addict!

Again, Karma had valid points in his post earlier, but again, who is Oprah's fan base?

 

Those movies, they're all the fucking same...from Breakin' all the Rules to Stomp the Yard to Two Can Play That Game to Soul Plane. All the same subject matter. All play it safe! Nothing groundbreaking. Since Soul Food, most so-called positive Black Movies followed in that mold. Nothing Original. Same thing happened with Boyz N' the Hood. Nor there have been some good black movies in recent years. Problem is that they are all straight to video, while the shittiest of shitty ones get theatrical releases.

 

Obama didn't "need" Oprah's push anymore than he "needed" to pick Hillary as his running mate. Didn't hurt, though.

Oh really? How is it "overused." I say anything that isn't a minstrel show/rap video (like most black entertainment today) is "positive."

Hmm, "Antwone Fisher" was pretty good, and it launched Derek Luke. Positive. Haven't seen "The Great Debaters" yet, but it looks good. The first five Spike Lee joints were the shit (reaching all the way back). I really loved this old flick called "Hav Plenty" that came out in the early 90s. It actually had people in it who looked and acted like me and my friends, and the guy who made it was never heard from again, lol. Problem is, these kinds of flicks don't really make money so they don't get the development and rewrites other movies get. You seem hip to entertainment, you know what's up.

 

Now there's an overused word when it comes to black folks! LOL.

 

I remember Hav Plenty That was in '98. Very good movie. Came out right after Soul Food. My dad and I talk about it sometimes and wonder why It didn't do as well at the box office. I liked Finding Forrester. Haven't seen Antwone. However, I heard some negativity since the the brothas were allegedly dating light-skinned sistas. Don't know since I haven't seen it.

 

Ya know, ya just gotta shake things up a bit. LOL!

 

This is my first time reading this thread and I must say there are some interesting points and ideas.

First, lets deal with tyler perry. Now that I think about it...the bad guys in his movies ARE always dark-skinned. But I dont have a problem with his tv show or his movies. Why: because its entertainment! Period! Yeah, his show has buffons on it, but guess what, so do white shows. (So only white people and hispanic people can be buffons or do physical comedy?)

Also, if you watch tyler perry's shows and movies, he has plenty of black people as positive role models. (Why hasnt anyone pointed out that the father on "house of pain" is the chief of the local fire department and that dispite the family's "buffonery", they all either work go to school?)

Also, please people stop trying to have it both ways. When black people were not in mainstream movies and could only get roles in black movies we complained "white people wont put us in their movies!" Now black people are complaining "what happened to all of the "good" black movies?"

Now granted hollywood has a looooong way to go before we can say with a straight face that black actors and actresses are getting the same consideration as white actors and actresses, but I must say that Ive seen a huge improvement over the past 10 years. Sanai lathan in AVP, tyrese in transformers, kerry washington in the new movie with samuel l. jackson and a whole list of other movies where blacks were cast in very prominent roles that could have very easily been filled with a white person. (Hell, 10 years ago blacks probably wouldnt have even been considered for those roles.)

And what I think is more important than blacks just acting is blacks getting involved in the "hierarchy" of hollywood (financing and executive decisions) and behind the camera (i love the work of forest whitaker, bill duke, and antoine fuqua).

So...while hollywood is far from fair (what is?) I would definitely give it a passing grade and a thumbs up for going in the right direction.

As for Obama needing a push from Oprah, all politicians need a push, or multiple pushes to get elected. Usually, instead of a great speech or celebrity endosement, (Obama's route), politicians use money and favors. Mccain used his wife's family fortune and politicial connections to get elected. And its exactly why politicians cozzy up to lobbyist...because they need the $ that the lobbyist can funnel to them from the corporate giants who need favors. Dont hate Obama because he changed the game.

Oh...and spike is still on top of his game. Inside Man was the shit!!!

 

Jellybird, you have some easily-achieved standards if the work of Duke, Whitaker and Fuqua behind the camera ranks as good in your book. Just saying. I see all sorts of films (independent, mainstream, art house, foreign, documentary, etc) and those guys aren't all that good by comparison. Fuqua is the best of that lot and he is only a third tier mainstream director at best. Whitaker's directorial work has been pedestrian and is no more inventive than anything I could find on the Lifetime Network. And what has Duke done in about a century? "Rage In Harlem" was pretty good but wasn't that in the early 90s?

I'm sorry, folks , if I come across as a film snob but unless you expand your horizons and the type of films you watch then you'll have a more limited perspective to base your critique of filmmaking in general. Look, if you keep having low standards for anything in life you are willing to accept virtually anything or at least be less critical of substandard material. Its almost embarrassing when I hear black folks claim that its racist for Tyler Perry films to not get considered for Oscar consideration. Sorry, but to me that is downright ignorance. People who feel that way either have low standards and a lack of knowledge concerning higher forms of filmmaking or they are so happy to see a bunch of black characters that it greatly increases the quality of the film for them. Maybe a combination of both is at work. You are what you eat. You are what you read. And you are what you watch. So if you want to keep consuming bottom of the barrell "junk food" cinema and claim that its pretty good then don't complain years from now when black filmmaking has stagnated further. And by the way it HAS stagnated. This is not just my opinion. This is the opinion of black filmmakers as a group. They will tell you there were more reasons for optimism for black filmmakers back in the 90s than there are in 2008. Maybe sometime soon I will paste some articles to this thread.

Last of all folks still don't get it if they are still falling back on the "positive" argument. I don't care that some black character is a fire marshall. I care if the show (if its a comedy) is actually smart, witty and doesn't insult my intelligence. If its all about buffonery (with some positive messages thrown in the end as if the viewers have a third grade education level) then the so-called positive characters don't mean squat. Being positive is secondary to me anyway; being good is what's most important. There were a lot of things not positive about the characters in "The Wire" but those characters were all fascinating and well drawn and the scripts were superb. Terrence Howard may not have been playing a positive guy in "Hustle & Flow" but that character was more complex, three-dimensional and real than the real life swimming coach he played in that "positive" garbage "Pride" he did about a year ago. "Pride" was about as sophisticated as an afterschool special.

 

First of all jamal, I didnt say that house of pain was good, or that i liked the show. I was just arguing against the premise that the show was colmpetely negative and had no redeming qualities.

Second, to say that fuqua is 3rd-tier is nuts. Oh, he's only directed GREAT f*cking movies like tears of the sun, king authur, the replacement killers, and an academy award winning movie called training day!

Third, every movie doesnt have to be a contorted crime drama to be good. If you had a daughter or maybe considered a demographic other than men 18-25, you would know that forest whitaker's "first daughter was a huge success!

Fourth, if you didnt spend all your time sucking down $10 sodas in the movie theaters, you might have seen a few of the off-broadway plays directed by bill duke...not to even talk about the numerous, great tv shows he's directed, such as brewster's place. And if you have something negative to say about deep cover, which he also directed, then you've definitely proved you know nothing about movies.

But you did get one thing right in your post...you do come off as a film snob.

(Expand your own f*cking horizons...)

 

Jelly, I was hoping that you would add your two cents. You make good points and make people think. Yeah, its all entertainment, but the problem is that when they see black people do comedy, many non-blacks will think that's how we all act. As I stated earlier, there are good black movies, but they are all straight to DVD/cable. But again, this is coming from someone who is still obsessed with the media, Hollywood and celebrities.

 

First of all I never claimed that the show had no redeeming qualities. I don't watch the show so I can't judge it. I can only judge Perry's films. But my point was that it appears you're trying to put a cherry on a top of something you don't think is all that good just because the father has a postive job. That's the type of lunacy I've come across from black folks for too long. My response wasn't necessarily directed at you but at the years of hearing that type of copout.

To say Fuqua is anything is greater than third tier is silly. Try knowing the industry and knowing how directors are guaged. Michael Bay would be considered by most as being only a third tier director and his films are hugely successful. But no one thinks he belongs in that small first tier platform with the true greats and most wouldn't considers him to be a second tier type of director either. He is third tier. Tops. And if he is third tier then the less successful and less accomplished Fuqua is at best third tier too until proven otherwise. Once you get past the true greats studios go for that second tier guys immediately to direct their films. Once they can't get those fellas then they start reaching for Michael Bay and later Fuqua. They don't go to Bay first or second to direct the truly high concept scripts (action or otherwise). They go to him for mindless fun like Transformers which rely more on special effects than intellect or ingenuity. That's why he is only third tier and you can surely bet Fuqua is not rated above him (like I said at best he is sharing space on that same tier). That's Fuqua's pecking order in Hollywood whether you like it or not. And honestly the closest thing to a great movie by Fuqua is "Training Day" and that is by no means a great motion picture. Take away Denzel's performance and its just a bit above average. Now in your neck of the woods if that film constitues a classic then so be it. But by the standards of the people who judge films and by the stadards of the industry itself it ain't exactly "Heat". Sorry.

1)It wasn't a huge success. It made only so-so dollars. Check its box office total if you think I'm lying.That film basically ended Whitaker's career as a commercial film director.
2)Plenty of great films are not crime dramas. "First Daughter" just doesn't happen to be one of them.
3)If I had a daughter there are other options then that crapfest. I would go with classic films if I had to. Of course if she still wanted to see it it would be her choice anyway.
4)Most of the foreign and independent films I see aren't targeted to the 18-25 male demographic. In fact I only see about a half dozen of those young, male demographic types of movies each year because most of them are mindless. So what's your point?

Sir, this is laughable because I can confidently sit here and write you don't know much about films if you put "Deep Cover" on a pedestal. You simply have different standards. You have what is called a layman's view of movies, kind of like the average dude who walks into a Blockbuster Video Store (or used to back in the day). Most customers were easy to please and only wanted the mainstream, non-challenging stuff. "Deep Cover" by the way is solid with some fierce acting by Fishburne and some great mood music established by Duke. But its incoherent in many parts and gets weaker down the stretch. To most people it ain't memorable but for you it must be some sort of masterpeice, huh? Fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But there are folks who think "Joe Dirt" is great too and I ain't buying that bullshit either. Of course there are folks who never stepped into a four star restaurant and as a result believe that McDonalds serves great food. Get my drfit? Step out your box and please diversify your selection of films. You'll see a whole new world that will blow stuff like "Deep Cover" out of the water. And to be fair to Mr Duke it wasn't as if he was working with a great script.

Don't really know about Duke's off-broadway work but that was never the point. We're talking about MOVIES. Duke is an intelligent man who took over the Communications School of Howard University (which I attended). I have lots of respect for him and I think he's a solid to pretty good filmmaker. But he's no Charles Burnett or anything.

Try not to be too insecure about it, okay? If you bring some solid, legit facts to the argument rather than spewing stuff that would get you laughed at at any film discussion by people with a more broad range of fim viewing experience and by people with inside knowledge of the industry, I wouldn't get on your case about it. Its like when muy friends are having discussions about hip-hop. I have some opinions and views. But I don't have anywhere the knowledge about the industry and as a result I don't get my facts straight. So I listen rather than claim something like, say, Bow Wow is easily better than a third tier rapper. See how silly that sounds?

(Expand your own f*cking horizons...)[/quote]

 

Smooth, give me a few examples of the good ones that have gone straight to DVD. I stopped keeping up with the direct-to-DVD market.

 

I'm a bit behind myself (as far as the Direct-to-DVD market). I need to get back on track with that stuff. I'm just remembering stuff from the late '90s and so forth. I'm sure there had been a few good movies out there.