Random Political comments...

That's an over simplistic question the more reality based question is do we choose which costs we want to socialize and which ones we privatize. No college and healthcare won't be free but we can choose to trade labor hours that are taxed to go to that instead of a hyper inflated military budget or more corporate welfare where companies that earn billions get a tax cut.

So my question to you is do you think we can choose a better path or is everything set in stone?

 

Of course there is a better path. I don't claim to be perfect, but I don't approach a problem with emotion or bias. I learned to be patient only so I could further disconnect from emotion for problem solving. We can clean the shit up but I want the optimum result. Not the result that's going to just make people happy for the meantime, because they are ignorant to the real costs.

The question is not overly simplistic. Its a question. If you can't answer it, how can you answer the more complex ones.

 

I ultimately asked if anything was truly for free and I think I did a job of answering that. I also didn't answer with emotional bias, it was pretty pragmatic. It comes down how we CHOOSE to spend our resources, relative to our GDP we can absolutely pay for college for all and healthcare. As a society we chose to give everyone 12 years of free education why can't we do 2 to 4 years more? It's not like the money doesn't exist we just choose to spend it on military ordinances that sit in a warehouse becoming obsolete. We spend the money on tax cuts for people who don't need it and then ship jobs abroad.
Seriously what am I missing?

 

I agree that we should cut the military budget and allocate more funds to state colleges. You want to make it completely free. For the most part I want to lower the tuition costs across the country to a level comparable to the south east until I see some evidence that a "free" college model can work the way the advocates like you envision it.

In other words. From what I have learned about the real word models: they don't work the way you envision them to be.

"As a society if we can give 12 free years of education why not 4 more"


Really??

Because those 12 free years sucked ass Carlton.

 

I didn't go to high school in Cleveland but while I was living there the got damn roof of a high school caved in. Lucky no one died.

Yeah 4 "free" years of that shit. Can't wait.

 

Depends on the area I guess. Schools are good where I like but I also pay around 13k in property taxes. You gotta any examples where free college doesn't work. I'm open to learning

 

Its not that it doesn't work, just not the way its usually envisioned. If you have any free time take a look at the French system. One of My French professors went to college there. There are many differences, and probably so throughout Europe. Do people here really want that? Is the question I ask.

 

I agree Beasty. One thing some people don't think about when arguing about politics is that sometimes people wouldn't want a policy even if you could prove to them that it "worked."

For instance, even if you could show people that switching the entire country to automated cars would massively reduce fatalities on the road, some people would still resist because they want to drive their own cars. The point is that there is more to politics than "this works" or "this doesn't work" because humans are not perfect robots that do whatever is most efficient.

 

Welp.

Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof

Thanks, Berners!

http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

 

https://twitter.com/ShaneRyanHere/status/900732842853924864

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...st-smear-the-five-steps-liberals-take-to.html

 

Part 2:

 

What are Kamala Harris' problematic policy positions???

It's so crazy that we're tearing down potential Democratic candidates already in 2017.

I'm all for examining her record, or anyone else's, but for someone to argue at this early date she's an unacceptable candidate is way too premature.
Just my gut feeling, but I don't think 'liberal' and moderate voting America are ready for another Black presidential candidate.

 

So, in the general election, roughly 20% of Sanders voters either voted for Trump, didn't vote, or voted for another candidate.
Great.

What's most sickening is that Berniebros are the reason Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, which was basically the election.

Around 200,000 Bernie supporters voted for Trump in those 3 swing states.

Trump won all three by less than 80,000 votes.

That's unbelievable.

Well, it's official now. We have an insurgency movement attempting to take over the the Dem party, and if we aren't careful it will explode into a civil war.

Being angry with the DNC and HRC doesn't mean you ACTIVELY try to get someone like Trump elected as some kind of punishment to non-Sanders supporters.

Berniebros' temper tantrum fucked up the SC for more than a generation and the country in general.

This is why I always post everywhere on social media that Bernie Sanders is more of a personality cult than politician, and his supporters are more loyal to HIM than the party.

Now they're floating the idea Sanders is going to run again in 2020, at age 79. Please no.
And if he he does and we other progressives don't support him, they will blow up the election again.

 

I happen to be a Clinton-style Democrat myself, and I have some strong criticisms of Bernie's economic platform and his relative insistence on framing all issues black people face in purely economic terms. But I want to make one other thing clear: if Bernie had beaten Hillary in the primary and was the Democratic nominee against Trump, I would have voted for Bernie in a heartbeat. No candidate is ever perfect (Hillary certainly wasn't, even though she was my favorite), and we all have to make compromises.

So to the Bernie voters on this forum or in this thread: I'm with you. We may not agree on everything, but we agree on more than enough that I desperately want to be your friend, not your enemy. We liberals have enough enemies as it is, given that conservatives control virtually every part of the government right now.

 

I still say if the DNC didn't cheat we wouldn't be here. She was the worst candidate in history but they insisted to try and shove her down everyone's throats

 

She might get a pass since she's a woman

 

Ok so realistically who else we got because I for one would rather leave than just hand the keys to another corporate democrat. Is it completely unimaginable to have people who actually work for the citizens of this country and not purely wealthy interests? Is it childish to want that?
Because whether it's a Trump or Clinton the end result is the same the American people being completely fucked the only difference is speed and magnitude

 

The problem is you have to understand what you're dealing with on the other side of the aisle.
A corporate dem might be corrosive to the long term goals of progressives, but a corporate Republican is 100x worse.
No matter how bad a candidate HRC might have been, she was the superior alternative to Trump.

Also progressives need to understand the difference between being a great candidate and a great POTUS.
I have much more trust in HRC controlling the levers of the federal government than either Bernie or Trump.

That's the discussion Bernie bros should have been having, instead of convincing themselves the country would survive a Trump presidency AND we can teach the DCCC a hard lesson at the same time.

BTW Bernie wasn't 'cheated'. He just wasn't the favored candidate of the DNC, which is understandable.
TO beat the incumbent within a political party, you can't come close. You have to knock them out.

Bernie no matter what his supporters say didn't do what Obama did to HRC in 2008, when BHO flipped Hillary voters to change their allegiance to him.

Bernie was never able to do that.

 

When people like Donna Brazil craft questions in order to make HRC look better and give her more air time at the request of the DNC that's cheating, they aren't giving both candidates equal time.
Everyone acts like Bernie just showed up last week the man has more experience than HRC and Trump. Why are we pretending like he's some novice.

I also think the vast majority of bots as you call them voted for HRC. I know I did and it's because most of us understood the threat that was DJT
Where she failed is she didn't show up in those states you mentioned she didn't address the econonic concerns of people living in the rust belt and South. All she had to do was talk about bringing jobs here but that wasn't her message. Her overall message was I'm not Trump. She's your classic ivory tower elite who believed she deserved the presidency and didn't have to work for it.
I agree conservatives are far worst but they are both representatives of the wealthy elite and to this day I never believed someone worth hundreds of millions of dollars would have really addressed the concerns of the working class in a meaningful way. The only difference she wouldn't be dumb enough to burn the whole thing down.

 

OMG preach

You & Loki are the voices of clear-eyed political reason on this board