Man Hits Woman - Was he Right ? Or Wrong ?

[Peach State Scholar]

Correct -- it's not that complicated. That's why it's a shame that you're missing the point.

Yes, she shouldn't have hit him. She should've known better... Even a toddler or a 90 y.o. should know better.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about HIS REACTION.

As a toddler, I was taught to not to talk shit to cops. Was taught not to toddle away or struggle as they're trying to cuff me. Is it okay for cops to shoot down people who do such things? Are they "defending themselves" when they blast (or brutalize) a drunk who talks back or struggles?

...Or is shooting them down excessive and disproportionate?

The answers are obvious. Just as obvious: this guy's reaction to a love tap from a chick half his size was excessive. And even more important -- far more important -- IT DIDN'T HELP HIM AT ALL. He wasn't "defending himself". Her love tap wasn't going to land him in the hospital -- but being jumped in county might. Her little shove wasn't going to change his life -- but the internet infamy and criminal record might.

The dude doesn't even gain pride. I can see clocking a guy like that -- even a little guy -- for doing what she did. But clocking a little cheerleader like that doesn't even defend your pride. And it's worth saying: I bet he would've been a wee bit more hesitant if the person shoving him was a linebacker twice his size.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone here to tell me what he gained from a reaction like that.

I don't know why you're making such a big deal about whether he "gained" something by hitting her, because what does that have to do with anything? I'd love to hear how that's even relevant to what happened because so far, I don't see it. If someone takes a swing at me and I defend myself I'm doing that because I'm trying to keep myself safe, not because I'm trying to impress someone.

Yeah, he shouldn't have hit her as hard as he did but that's water under the bridge at this point. And he was definitely defending himself because he didn't raise a hand to her until after she came at home not once, but twice...and this is after she motioned for him to come over to where she was. His hitting her was direct reaction to her coming at him twice. The fact that she's smaller than he is means that she probably shouldn't be trying to fight him in the first place.

In a perfect world no one bigger would ever hit anyone smaller but the world is far from perfect. Hell, I learned not to pick fights with people bigger and stronger than me when I was in elementary school. You never know how someone is going to react to being swung on or lunged at and by the time that happens, their reaction might land you flat on your back, or worse.

I said it before and I'll say it again: it sucks that she got hurt, and I feel bad for her because between the two of them she definitely came out a lot worse than Mixon did. And if they could both go back and do it again they'd probably both do things differently. But the fact remains that, despite your gender, age, race, income, nation of origin, or any other variables once you take a swing at someone for no reason at all, you have no idea what's going to happen after that. You keep your hands to yourself, even in anger, and your life is going to be a whole lot easier.

 

[ThelowlyGentleman]

As a man of color I probably wouldn't have even followed them In. Black men have went down for a lot less......Jay walking....not recycling...etc lol she shouldn't have put her hands on him ..it's a grey area I feel like maybe alcohol played a part.

 

[GFunk]

Correct -- it's not that complicated. That's why it's a shame that you're missing the point.

Yes, she shouldn't have hit him. She should've known better... Even a toddler or a 90 y.o. should know better.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about HIS REACTION.

As a toddler, I was taught to not to talk shit to cops. Was taught not to toddle away or struggle as they're trying to cuff me. Is it okay for cops to shoot down people who do such things? Are they "defending themselves" when they blast (or brutalize) a drunk who talks back or struggles?

...Or is shooting them down excessive and disproportionate?

The answers are obvious. Just as obvious: this guy's reaction to a love tap from a chick half his size was excessive. And even more important -- far more important -- IT DIDN'T HELP HIM AT ALL. He wasn't "defending himself". Her love tap wasn't going to land him in the hospital -- but being jumped in county might. Her little shove wasn't going to change his life -- but the internet infamy and criminal record might.

The dude doesn't even gain pride. I can see clocking a guy like that -- even a little guy -- for doing what she did. But clocking a little cheerleader like that doesn't even defend your pride. And it's worth saying: I bet he would've been a wee bit more hesitant if the person shoving him was a linebacker twice his size.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone here to tell me what he gained from a reaction like that.

Don't care what there was to be gained. Pride, don't care for that either. If a linebacker did the same thing and he chose to hit him or not, that's fine. I wouldn't fault him for either.

Cops are meant to "protect and serve". They are held to a higher standard by society and within their own ranks. They are expected to handle a situation a civilian may boy be able to. I don't expect some college civilian to do so. It would be ideal if everything could be resolved without fighting but it can't. You can look to a cop you have never met and expect them to take care of the situation. That does not apply to some random in street clothes.

"Love tap" implies horsing around, not intending to harm. Her intent was to harm. First was a push, second was for the throat, third may have been for the eyes.

 

[goodlove8]

Correct -- it's not that complicated. That's why it's a shame that you're missing the point.

Yes, she shouldn't have hit him. She should've known better... Even a toddler or a 90 y.o. should know better.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about HIS REACTION.

As a toddler, I was taught to not to talk shit to cops. Was taught not to toddle away or struggle as they're trying to cuff me. Is it okay for cops to shoot down people who do such things? Are they "defending themselves" when they blast (or brutalize) a drunk who talks back or struggles?

...Or is shooting them down excessive and disproportionate?

The answers are obvious. Just as obvious: this guy's reaction to a love tap from a chick half his size was excessive. And even more important -- far more important -- IT DIDN'T HELP HIM AT ALL. He wasn't "defending himself". Her love tap wasn't going to land him in the hospital -- but being jumped in county might. Her little shove wasn't going to change his life -- but the internet infamy and criminal record might.

The dude doesn't even gain pride. I can see clocking a guy like that -- even a little guy -- for doing what she did. But clocking a little cheerleader like that doesn't even defend your pride. And it's worth saying: I bet he would've been a wee bit more hesitant if the person shoving him was a linebacker twice his size.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone here to tell me what he gained from a reaction like that.

So if she had a small pistol , it wouldn't warrant him to use an assault rifle to shoot back. He would have to get a pistol too

It doesn't matter how hard she is capable the dude but the fact she assaulted him. End of story.

She deserved that dirt nap

 

[Loki]

So if she had a small pistol , it wouldn't warrant him to use an assault rifle to shoot back. He would have to get a pistol too

It doesn't matter how hard she is capable the dude but the fact she assaulted him. End of story.

She deserved that dirt nap

GL, look at the aftermath, the consequences of him hitting her. He now has a criminal record (misdemeanor battery) that will follow him forever whenever he applies for work. He lost a year of his scholarship, years of blood, sweat, and effort lost. His draft status (if he even gets drafted by the NFL now) will be negatively affected, costing hundreds of thousands if not millions of $. He is now facing a civil trial, and even if he wins he will still have to pay a lot of time and $ defending himself while he continues to get his name/image dragged through the mud.

Huge consequences because he did not think and simply reacted with incredible stupidity and violence when the smart and best thing for SELF PRESERVATION would have been to walk away after she shoved him first and never had anything more to do with her.

 

[goodlove8]

GL, look at the aftermath, the consequences of him hitting her. He now has a criminal record (misdemeanor battery) that will follow him forever whenever he applies for work. He lost a year of his scholarship, years of blood, sweat, and effort lost. His draft status (if he even gets drafted by the NFL now) will be negatively affected, costing hundreds of thousands if not millions of $. He is now facing a civil trial, and even if he wins he will still have to pay a lot of time and $ defending himself while he continues to get his name/image dragged through the mud.

Huge consequences because he did not think and simply reacted with incredible stupidity and violence when the smart and best thing for SELF PRESERVATION would have been to walk away after she shoved him first and never had anything more to do with her.

Again she hit him. That's the point. He didn't lose his scholarship. He's still on the team.



Again, didn't she put her hands on him in anger?

Any person with half their salt as an Atty would have got him off. Why? Self-defense.

She instigated and she put her hands on him first.

So are you saying cause he's a man (legally) he's not to protect himself?

Are you saying women are allowed a different set of laws?

It's funny the lowest man on the totem pole when it comes to the law trayvon defended himself but found as a thug and this dude defended himself and he's a thug

So tell me are you saying bm shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves under the law?

As raider inferred in another thread are you saying women can't be considered abusers cause they aren't as strong?

 

[DudeNY12]

As a man of color I probably wouldn't have even followed them In. Black men have went down for a lot less......Jay walking....not recycling...etc lol she shouldn't have put her hands on him ..it's a grey area I feel like maybe alcohol played a part.

Yes! That's also part of my reasoning. Sure, it was wrong for her to put her hims on him, but for him to retaliate... It just opens the door for a lot to go wrong for both , including him possibly catching a charge. Precisely why a guy in that position... If he's not in imminent danger he needs to put aside anger, pride and so on and remove himself from that situation ASAP.

 

[RaiderLL]

Again she hit him. That's the point. He didn't lose his scholarship. He's still on the team.



Again, didn't she put her hands on him in anger?

Any person with half their salt as an Atty would have got him off. Why? Self-defense.

She instigated and she put her hands on him first.

So are you saying cause he's a man (legally) he's not to protect himself?

Are you saying women are allowed a different set of laws?

It's funny the lowest man on the totem pole when it comes to the law trayvon defended himself but found as a thug and this dude defended himself and he's a thug

So tell me are you saying bm shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves under the law?

As raider inferred in another thread are you saying women can't be considered abusers cause they aren't as strong?

I almost feel bad when you don't realize you're out of your league in a conversation, but you're so arrogant I actually enjoy watching you put your foot in your mouth over and over, and over lol.

As I've asked every.single.time you spew bullshit about me... show me where I made a comment indicating that I believe women can't be abusers. Just because you have an ugly heart and want to twist things to fit your narritive of the people who oppose you, doesn't mean your beliefs are fact. It's always the same fight with you, I swear. Grow the fuck up.

This isn't preschool. Grown ass men (or women) don't haul off and use their fists when facing a confrontation. As Loki tried explaining to your ignorant ass, intelligent people would see the situation for what it is and remove themselves from it. Especially after the heffer smacked him. People of your intellect use the "she hit me so I can hit her" mentality. You see the different in maturity levels between those two groupings? Probably not because you're in the latter, but it's significant let me tell you. It's that kind of maturity that seperates men like Loki (and Dude) from boys like yourself.

 

[goodlove8]

I almost feel bad when you don't realize you're out of your league in a conversation, but you're so arrogant I actually enjoy watching you put your foot in your mouth over and over, and over lol.

As I've asked every.single.time you spew bullshit about me... show me where I made a comment indicating that I believe women can't be abusers. Just because you have an ugly heart and want to twist things to fit your narritive of the people who oppose you, doesn't mean your beliefs are fact. It's always the same fight with you, I swear. Grow the fuck up.

This isn't preschool. Grown ass men (or women) don't haul off and use their fists when facing a confrontation. As Loki tried explaining to your ignorant ass, intelligent people would see the situation for what it is and remove themselves from it. Especially after the heffer smacked him. People of your intellect use the "she hit me so I can hit her" mentality. You see the different in maturity levels between those two groupings? Probably not because you're in the latter, but it's significant let me tell you. It's that kind of maturity that seperates men like Loki (and Dude) from boys like yourself.

Plz you are full of shit. It's arrogant of you to say or infer that there should be different standards for women than men.

Hell cause I think women should be held to the same standards of the law , morally and ethically makes me wrong.

It's funny coming from you that you think women can't be abusers.

Now let's break this story down

She blew smoke in his face (in the street) for no reason but being a drunk ass. He followed her in to argue(that's his fault. Not against the law) . He tries to walk away and she grabs him and hit him and he hit back.

Who gets in trouble...? Him. Why? For defending himself...

She was the aggressor. You can't dispute that. So why should he get in trouble for defending himself?

 

[DudeNY12]

Again she hit him. That's the point. He didn't lose his scholarship. He's still on the team.



Again, didn't she put her hands on him in anger?

Any person with half their salt as an Atty would have got him off. Why? Self-defense.

She instigated and she put her hands on him first.

So are you saying cause he's a man (legally) he's not to protect himself?

Are you saying women are allowed a different set of laws?

It's funny the lowest man on the totem pole when it comes to the law trayvon defended himself but found as a thug and this dude defended himself and he's a thug

So tell me are you saying bm shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves under the law?

As raider inferred in another thread are you saying women can't be considered abusers cause they aren't as strong?

GL, I get where you're coming from, but I think what some of us are saying is that such a situation is likely to go badly for both people. Both have a lot to lose. She - Her well-being, and possibly criminal charges. In his case the scholarship, cri,inal charge and all that comes with it. I agree that a decent attorney may be able to get him off (and maybe record expunged), but he still has an arrest record and he'd need the resources to get an attorney. Again, I get your points, but the reality of how things work is that he loses simply because he wasn't in danger and he could've gotten away from her. Also in this day and age where so many women are being hurt/killed by men in situations like this.

 

[goodlove8]

GL, I get where you're coming from, but I think what some of us are saying is that such a situation is likely to go badly for both people. Both have a lot to lose. She - Her well-being, and possibly criminal charges. In his case the scholarship, cri,inal charge and all that comes with it. I agree that a decent attorney may be able to get him off (and maybe record expunged), but he still has an arrest record and he'd need the resources to get an attorney. Again, I get your points, but the reality of how things work is that he loses simply because he wasn't in danger and he could've gotten away from her. Also in this day and age where so many women are being hurt/killed by men in situations like this.

She didn't get in trouble. That's the point. Go look it up. She's suing him

He didn't lose his scholarship and the media felt he shouldn't have it and the punishment should be more harsh.

Oh we know how things work..racism....

But the gender issue...the problem is she was the aggressor and nothing happened to her.

To me that's Bs cause we are not putting any responsibility where it lies.

We both know it's bs.

Raides point is solely cause she's a woman. Horse wash. She's a grown woman who shouldn't be acting a fooll and is being awarded for it

 

[Loki]

Again she hit him. That's the point. He didn't lose his scholarship. He's still on the team.



Again, didn't she put her hands on him in anger?

Any person with half their salt as an Atty would have got him off. Why? Self-defense.

She instigated and she put her hands on him first.

So are you saying cause he's a man (legally) he's not to protect himself?

Are you saying women are allowed a different set of laws?

It's funny the lowest man on the totem pole when it comes to the law trayvon defended himself but found as a thug and this dude defended himself and he's a thug

So tell me are you saying bm shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves under the law?

As raider inferred in another thread are you saying women can't be considered abusers cause they aren't as strong?

GL I said he lost an important year of eligibility, and he did. You have heard me say many many times here that very often the law has nothing to do with justice. That's the real world we all have to understand, you are coming from a perspective that the altercation and the resulting consequences for both was not fair, an eye for an eye if you will. The law does not see things that way and I really hope you get that, now we can have an interesting debate about the various intricacies of the law but it won't change the fact that this case and the consequences the football player now face and the fact that she (to the best of my knowledge) is not facing legal charges, are VERY common outcomes regardless of how good the lawyers might be.

Now he WOULD have had a great case against her if he would have walked away without any retaliation, pressed criminal battery charges and used the tape in court to win a civil judgement. Now his reputation is intact, his draft status is intact, no lost year of playing, NO criminal record, perhaps some $ in his pocket from the civil suit, national praise for showing restraint and smarts. THATS HOW INTELLIGENT BLACK MEN protect/defend themselves in this society not by playing right into the hands of long held negative stereotypes of BM being violent, emotional, and unthinking.

You keep pointing out the true fact that she hit him first, what you don't understand (you are not a lawyer so it's understandable) is that the law will STILL place the burden on the larger and stronger man to walk away because he was not in any serious danger to his person. Again we can argue all day that this is not "fair" to men, especially BM, but it won't change reality.

 

[goodlove8]

we are talking separate issues.
I'll address later. Gots to roll. I promise

GL I said he lost an important year of eligibility, and he did. You have heard me say many many times here that very often the law has nothing to do with justice. That's the real world we all have to understand, you are coming from a perspective that the altercation and the resulting consequences for both was not fair, an eye for an eye if you will. The law does not see things that way and I really hope you get that, now we can have an interesting debate about the various intricacies of the law but it won't change the fact that this case and the consequences the football player now face and the fact that she (to the best of my knowledge) is not facing legal charges, are VERY common outcomes regardless of how good the lawyers might be.

Now he WOULD have had a great case against her if he would have walked away without any retaliation, pressed criminal battery charges and used the tape in court to win a civil judgement. Now his reputation is intact, his draft status is intact, no lost year of playing, NO criminal record, perhaps some $ in his pocket from the civil suit, national praise for showing restraint and smarts. THATS HOW INTELLIGENT BLACK MEN protect/defend themselves in this society not by playing right into the hands of long held negative stereotypes of BM being violent, emotional, and unthinking.

You keep pointing out the true fact that she hit him first, what you don't understand (you are not a lawyer so it's understandable) is that the law will STILL place the burden on the larger and stronger man to walk away because he was not in any serious danger to his person. Again we can argue all day that this is not "fair" to men, especially BM, but it won't change reality.

 

[Loki]

we are talking separate issues.
I'll address later. Gots to roll. I promise

In the meantime watch this video, the woman, clearly the aggressor with intent to do serious even fatal harm, crime committed while in a POLICE station, is still acquitted. This is what I mean when I say the law often times has nothing to do with justice.

 

[RaiderLL]

Plz you are full of shit. It's arrogant of you to say or infer that there should be different standards for women than men.

Hell cause I think women should be held to the same standards of the law , morally and ethically makes me wrong.

It's funny coming from you that you think women can't be abusers.

Now let's break this story down

She blew smoke in his face (in the street) for no reason but being a drunk ass. He followed her in to argue(that's his fault. Not against the law) . He tries to walk away and she grabs him and hit him and he hit back.

Who gets in trouble...? Him. Why? For defending himself...

She was the aggressor. You can't dispute that. So why should he get in trouble for defending himself?

I'm not entertaining you anymore. You don't get the point, clearly. Loki and Dude have both tried to respectfully set you straight but you're too damn stubborn to recognize the message. No wonder so many keep you on ignore, good lord.

 

[DudeNY12]

She didn't get in trouble. That's the point. Go look it up. She's suing him

He didn't lose his scholarship and the media felt he shouldn't have it and the punishment should be more harsh.

Oh we know how things work..racism....

But the gender issue...the problem is she was the aggressor and nothing happened to her.

To me that's Bs cause we are not putting any responsibility where it lies.

We both know it's bs.

Raides point is solely cause she's a woman. Horse wash. She's a grown woman who shouldn't be acting a fooll and is being awarded for it

GL, I think we may have to agree to disagree to a certain extent, but I'll address your points.

I didn't know the details about the scholarship, but in my mind... Of the things he could lose... That's one of them.

In regards to how things work... I was referring to male vs. female physical altercations and when police/justice system is involved. Again, he stands to lose plenty if he doesn't restrain himself and get away from the situation.

I get that the lady was indeed the aggressor, but in the eyes of the law... It's not reason to strike back. We get the same instruction as children in school... "If another child bothers you... don't engage the other child... tell the teacher". I know it's not always that simple as some people are simply troublemakers. I agree... It is indeed BS, but he should see it for what it is and not allow himself to get caught up.

As for Raider's point... I agree with her. Also... You're right in that the woman is indeed responsible for her actions just as the dude is responsible for his. If I'm the dude... I'm not at all concerned about what happens to her and if she gets in trouble. However, I'm totally concerned with how this could negatively affect me.

 

[goodlove8]

Raider and I wasn't talking law.
Her point was she was hit too hard. She's a woman.

My point fuck that. You put your hands on someone then you guys to pay. Don't hit someone then hide behind the I'm a woman shit

I'll address the rest later

GL, I think we may have to agree to disagree to a certain extent, but I'll address your points.

I didn't know the details about the scholarship, but in my mind... Of the things he could lose... That's one of them.

In regards to how things work... I was referring to male vs. female physical altercations and when police/justice system is involved. Again, he stands to lose plenty if he doesn't restrain himself and get away from the situation.

I get that the lady was indeed the aggressor, but in the eyes of the law... It's not reason to strike back. We get the same instruction as children in school... "If another child bothers you... don't engage the other child... tell the teacher". I know it's not always that simple as some people are simply troublemakers. I agree... It is indeed BS, but he should see it for what it is and not allow himself to get caught up.

As for Raider's point... I agree with her. Also... You're right in that the woman is indeed responsible for her actions just as the dude is responsible for his. If I'm the dude... I'm not at all concerned about what happens to her and if she gets in trouble. However, I'm totally concerned with how this could negatively affect me.

 

[Loki]

Raider and I wasn't talking law.
Her point was she was hit too hard. She's a woman.

My point fuck that. You put your hands on someone then you guys to pay. Don't hit someone then hide behind the I'm a woman shit

I'll address the rest later

GL if your point is that everyone should keep their hands to themselves when it comes to violence, most reasonable people would agree. Nonetheless, we all live in a world with imperfect laws and an imperfect legal system with systemic biases against minorities.

The intelligent way to address the inherent unfairness of men not getting the benefit of the doubt and suffering negative legal consequences even when they were the victim or attacked first is to lobby legal representatives and agitate to raise awareness, placing pressure on politicians to change the laws and how they are enforced.

The ignorant way is to engage in retaliatory violence while crying in the jail cell or courtroom about "unfairness", the legal system does... not...care... about what's fair.

 

[goodlove8]

I get that. There are some things that need not to be said. We are discussing basic standards of behavior and cause and effect.

If you have read my past posts you would know my encounters with the law . . .especially when it comes to men and women. Example, an ordinary person would not know about interrogatories and discovery, motions to compel. How I know I repped myself to a point in court. I know to go to the law library. I dealt with the DA and legally kicked his ass cause I was smart enough to look up the law. They tried to jam me but because I looked it up... I prevailed.

Yes my point is keep you hands to yourself and if you don't then you are going to catch a beat down. Ive been saying that over and over. Don't start a fight (she did go look at the video. If you noticed he started walking away but she grabbed him and hit him) and then scream but I'm a woman so don't hit me. Raiders point is opposite. She's saying " He hit her too hard." That's Bs. Don't start it and you won't get laid out. I'm sure you caught that right that issue.

GL if your point is that everyone should keep their hands to themselves when it comes to violence, most reasonable people would agree. Nonetheless, we all live in a world with imperfect laws and an imperfect legal system with systemic biases against minorities.

The intelligent way to address the inherent unfairness of men not getting the benefit of the doubt and suffering negative legal consequences even when they were the victim or attacked first is to lobby legal representatives and agitate to raise awareness, placing pressure on politicians to change the laws and how they are enforced.

The ignorant way is to engage in retaliatory violence while crying in the jail cell or courtroom about "unfairness", the legal system does... not...care... about what's fair.

Again he was walking away and she grabbed him.

The other issue you are discussing wasn't even addresed between raider and I.

That goes unsaid cause I know the game.

 

[Beasty]

Raider and I wasn't talking law.
Her point was she was hit too hard. She's a woman.

My point fuck that. You put your hands on someone then you guys to pay. Don't hit someone then hide behind the I'm a woman shit

I'll address the rest later

The White Knight ladies and gentlemen. When we are talking about a ww he takes the cape off.....lol