AARM,

You are right in that as adults we do have more control over who we interact with. That's a wonderful thing. And what I've noticed is that those black people who don't "fit the mold" do somehow seem to meet and interact with each other. This is a beautiful thing.

By Wyatt (207.106.60.7) on Thursday, July 5, 2001 - 12:09 pm:

Aarms,

What exxagerations of experience are you referring to? I did not read any exxagerations and I have no need to exxagerate my experience here. It is ok, you did not rain on my parade in the least. I do not date/marry white women because of guilt, nor do I date/marry because of bad experiences with black women. I date/marry because I enjoy the individuals company, share the same values, goals, interests.
As for attributing negative behavior to an entire black culture, I don't see that anywhere in my post. I gave black women the benefit of the doubt that they probably have no interest in a black man like me or my black male friends back at University. The only women who were interest in dating and getting to know us were white, asian or hispanic. Black women tended to not be interested, that is all. However, I will add that I just don't understand, since you said, that there are many black women who accept you for your different views and activities, why there is this constant view that there are no "good black men out here for black women". Since they rejected us, they must know something that we don't. They must have tons of black men who they think are better--so why so much complaints? It seems contradictory.

By the way, while I was top of the class and what you might call a nerd, I was also a jock(athlete in prep school and at University). It made no difference. I was really a popular scholar,as well as a very popular athlete, a student activist, socially popular and a christian.

By Aarm (216.104.228.113) on Wednesday, July 4, 2001 - 08:34 am:

I hate to rain on your parade boys, but I am just not feeling any of you on this issue. I have similar non-traditional interests as you guys but I also have had some interests in many traditionally "black" aspects of culture. Although I am not a fan of most hip-hop, there is some that is quite entertaining and thought provking. Not all of it is self-destructive trash as you all would have us believe.

In regards to "And a great many black women are unwilling to break out of a self-destructive culture", I agree only to the extent that this faction of BW do exist but I think they are in the minority. I have not had a problem finding attractive BW who share similar interests as I, and I am inclined to question some of your personal accounts as exageration. Dont get me wrong, I have had some black-people in general be resentful of my academic achievement, but by and large my experiences have been quite positive, unlike your own.

Furthermore, I think that some of you may be confusing universal childish bullying for something that you attribute to black culture. What I mean is that regardless of race the smart kids will get picked on by the dumber kids. In an environment where the whites out-number blacks it is reasonable to see more white kids in honors classes than blacks. The fewer blacks in the honors classes bare the brunt of the ridicule not only by the usual white bullies for being nerds, but also buy black bullies who mistakenly believe that black nerds are acting white simply because they see mostly whites in the honors classes.

I would caution you all to not be quick to use a few instances of stupidity (by a few black ignoramsuses) to justify or abate any guilt you may have in dating WW. If you prefer WW, then fine, but dont exaggerate your experiences to make your own inclinations easier for you to accept.

Finally, I will admit that my experience may be slightly different than you gentlemen's only in the fact that in addition to my academic achievement I also excelled as an athlete in high-school and college. Thus, by being a popular athlete, I may have been spared the brunt of most forms of intimidatation and therefore may not have had to deal with individuals hating me simply because I was in honors classes. But its difficult for me to imagine your many experiences with those ignorant individuals in light of the fact that we are adults now and thus have more control over the individuals we come in contact with.

AARM

By Kngdavid (150.201.25.153) on Wednesday, July 4, 2001 - 02:57 am:

Hear, hear,

I'm glad this topic was posted; And I think that Wyatt, Swampfox, and I have made our positions abundantly clear. I especially enjoyed Swampfoxes' comments; that was very clever, I'd never quite thought about it that way before. Give the man a prize.
Oh Yes, I'm certain there are many black men that may exhibit ulterior motives based on curiosity or self-hatred as for why they prefer white women. But, as for myself, and I presume Swampfox and Wyatt, we are interested in true relationship material, and we feel pretty damn good about ourselves. (At least that's true for me) And a great many black women are unwilling to break out of a self-destructive culture. (Not all, but a good number) And I've personally found more black women that exhibit an angry, man-hating, jealous attitude that I've always found to be distinctly UNfeminine.
For future reference, if any of you SWF meet an educated, well-spoken, black man pursuing a professional career and/or an advanced technical degree, he almost certainly is worthy of further consideration.

By Wyatt (207.106.60.7) on Monday, July 2, 2001 - 11:19 am:

Swampfox, KngDavid,

I know exactly what you are talking about and have experienced the same exact things. While,I find black, Asian, latin and Anglo women who are attractive, as equals, my experience has been that White women have been accepting of me and interested in me.

I have dated black women, but it seems that I did not do the right things and was ultimately rejected. They often rejected me because I dressed conservatively, I didn't care to drive a fancy car, I listened to country, folk, bluegrass and alt. music. I was confronted by black women in University and afterwards, saying that I was a "whiteboy". When I asked why they said this, they said, becuase I was articulate, polite, educated, different. They asked why I did certain activities like skiing, mountain climbing, kayaking, going to certain music festivals, travelling and working abroad, living simply, voting a certain way, eating different foods, living in certain places, etc. I told them that I did them because they are fun and I enjoy them. I invited them to try, but they seemed scared. So, this is the real problem. Some black women probably are not interested in the same activities or react in the same way as other women. I find that white women whom I meet and like, enjoy the same outdoor activities. Enjoy the same cultural events, live in the same area, interested in the same politics, attend the same churches.

By Swampfox8 (63.11.114.207) on Saturday, June 30, 2001 - 10:46 am:

I agree with some of what you've said Kngdavid. Growing up it seems that i was supposed to like rap music and to follow everything that most blacks did and when i did not i was also looked down upon. I still get some of these same reactions today at age 32, it seems that because i'm black i should not act,dress,talk or have any of the interests i do. I see it everyday, young black kids think that since they are black that they are limited to certain lifesyles and the media helps to reinforce this on a daily basis! It seems really bad here in South Carolina too. Just about every young black guy i see on the road or at a red light seems to have that damn rap music blaring and doing the exact same pose etc. as the next black kid. I use to hate this but as i got older i learned to like it because without all of those guys doing the same thing, i would not seem so different. For me it's cool being who i am and i've met some really choice white women just because i'm different!! So i say to all carbon copied black guys- continue being exactly the same as each other so that i can continue to stand out as i do!! Thanks.

By Kngdavid (150.201.11.241) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 04:01 pm:

Sabbado,

I would rather not be alienated from the majority of the population, but I'm not going to sublimate my personality and beliefs for anyone else's benefit. I happen to be rather opinionated, and that combined with the choices I made apparently makes me seem somehow "threatening". The overwhelming majority of blacks are caught in this highly predictable, monolithic culture. You can't deviate from it if you desire their respect and/or acceptance.
I have a strong belief system and a personality just as strong. I knew there were a few others that weren't obsessed with rap music and street crime, but they all pretended to be in order to fit in with the herd. Some of my peers tried to conceal their grades and intelligence from the rest of the community to avoid ridicule. And I refuse to play along with such nonsense. I reject the social dysfunction of black culture, and most likely always will.
Other blacks then chose to reject me. So be it; that's their prerogative. My prerogative is to build relationships with those that support my point of view. It so happens that most of them are white because white people have a greater diversity of cultures and sub-cultures. So yes, I probably will treat white women a little better, until they give me reason to do otherwise. I can be civil in public, but I'm not about to amend my core-beliefs to blend in with any ideology that gives every appearance of being self-destructive.

By Sabbadoo32 (12.2.19.162) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 05:21 pm:

I share a similar story, but with much less pain and rejection as yours. I was small (but cute), and white and black kids occasionally picked on me. In a nutshell, I was too white for some of the black kids, and too black for some of the white kids. But somehow I ended up with friends of all races, with no particular penchant for one or another. My experience also left me, I feel with an ability to see both sides of a story.

So I understand where you are coming from. But you really don't have to carry so much animosity toward us black folk.

SWJ

By Kngdavid (150.201.21.205) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 01:21 pm:

There's not that much too discuss. And I understand that it must seem odd or ironic to hear a black man say such things; but my personal existence has been characterized by such irony.
Throughout my youth, I was (almost)always trying to elevate myself. I was responsible in school, repsectful to elders, I always go to church, I obeyed the laws of the land, and got fairly good grades. I valued knowledge and character over tennis shoes and rap music.
Of course, being black I was expected to regard all whites as outsiders to be barely tolerated due to necessity. All of you white people were supposed to be my oppressors; centuries of slavery and Jim Crow should alienate me from you.
But where I grew up, none of the black youth (including girls) approved of my choices. I wasn't cruel to anyone, I didn't gossip, I didn't pick fights; but I was just a little too smart.
Compounding the irony, my sworn white enemies always treated me with courtesy and respect. (most of the time) It became very predictable; I could count on blacks to despise my constructive behaviour, just as I could count on white friends to support me. Now who's oppressing who?
Yes, I realize there are exceptions, this has just been my experience all throughout my most formative years. Is it so incomprehensible that I would favor those that supported my lifestyle choices? Is it that hard to believe?

By Sabbadoo32 (12.2.19.162) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 09:07 am:

KingDavid and Sendawulaman,

I am stunned and flabbergasted at your feelings towards black women. But at least you two are getting it out there. Have you discussed this with your close friends? Do you feel that by venting your issues here you will begin a self-healing process? Or is there no way to move past this stigma?

By Kngdavid (150.201.21.235) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 02:00 am:

In some respects, I can understand how Sendawulaman probably feels. To be honest, I do have a perception that white women on average are more "feminine". And to an extent, I find them more attractive in all the ways that count.
But this isn't really related to the way their skin reflects light in the visible spectrum; it's simply a preference I have due to what white people in general have done on my behalf, and what black people in general haven't.
It may be unfashionable to treat any groups of people differently from others, but there are real cultural and behavioral divergences; and I like a great many humans, tend to gravitate towards that which makes me more comfortable.

By Ishvara (208.37.111.157) on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 03:59 pm:

Very cute,Aarm I like to smile, and you certainly brought one to my face, now if only I convince the rest of the world I have poetry genius.... ;o)
Actuallly I keep all of it selfishly to myself.

By Aarm (198.81.230.200) on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 01:17 pm:

Ishvara, in regards to:

"Sendawulaman, It's a sad state of affairs when you let past perceptions color reality in the here and now. Life is now lived through a carnival mirror shading all your new experiences through the distorted image of past experiences which have no relevance on the here and now."

I say: DAYYAAM Girl, where'd you learn to write like that?! That was beautiful! I thought I was reading poetry or pros or somethin'. You ought to get that copyrighted and put on a greeting card. Otherwise, give me permission and I'll copyright it and sell it. ;-D

AARM

By Sabbadoo32 (12.2.19.162) on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 12:25 pm:

Sendawuluman,

Dude you've got some introspection to do. "Disgust," "ignorant," and "open hostility" are not just signs of issues; they can lead to getting your face slapped in public.

Either that or you really are just screwing with us.

By Ishvara (208.37.104.60) on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 10:32 am:

Sendawulaman, It's a sad state of affairs when you let past perceptions color reality in the here and now. Life is now lived through a carnival mirror shading all your new experiences through the distorted image of past experiences which have no relevance on the here and now.

I pray for any female children you might have.

By Anon2000 (208.187.245.37) on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 12:58 am:

spade, cherish used to post HERE, but it's been awhile. another of INVALID'S sybils...

By Sendawulaman (64.12.102.53) on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 07:48 pm:

Ok. (sigh)I've been wanting to talk about this topic for awhile. There's no simple way to go about saying this but...it's obvious to me that i treat white women better than i do blacks. Whether it's due to my past experiences etc., or just the color of her skin. I also think that due to my natural inclination towards white females and my (for some reason) disgust with black femnales I have more often than not approached black women with open hostility due to an assumption that they're "ignorant" or just not worth a damn.

By Spade (209.54.170.122) on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 01:39 pm:

Anon:

I'm certainly keeping a careful eye on the comments -- it seems as if bad habits die hard with some people. However I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with this Cherish alias.

By Anon2000 (208.187.244.195) on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 12:29 am:

SPADE, this sounds like CHERISH/INVALID starting more shyt...

By Swampfox8 (63.11.114.155) on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 05:17 pm:

Malnutrition, i happen to get along better with white women on average than black women, although i give everyone a fair shake i always seem to be more interested in white women for some reason. I'm not with them because i like their skin, i'm with them because i always seem to have more in common with certain ones. As far as the attraction, i'm attracted to women of every race! But in my town there seems to be an unlimited supply of very attractive fun to be with white women.

By Aarm (216.104.228.155) on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 05:14 pm:

Malnutrition,

what an interesting screen name. Just curious, but why did you choose that name?

Anyway, in regards to your post: I find it odd that your husband would say something like that and have that attitude. In seems that he has some sort of complex that may end up being detrimental to your marriage in the long run. What i mean is that in all likelyhood you have or will have children. Due to their being mulatto, one may have a darker/lighter hue than the other so essentially some of your children will have a darker complexion than their sibblings. How will your husband, Delmar, treat your children who have darker complexions? Will their be favoritism by him for those that are lighter-skinned?

It seems that Delmar has a few issues that need to be ironed out. I am a black male and I advise any woman to be weary of a man who will treat a person differently based soely on the color of their skin.

To answer your second question: I dont necessarily think that WW are innately prettier or more feminine than BW. I am attracted to all women regardless of color.

AARM

By Sabbadoo32 (12.2.19.162) on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 05:13 pm:

No, I don't. Personally, I prefer women without really big butts, really big boobs, or outward signs of possible eating disorders. I was at Chicago's Gay Pride parade (no I'm not!), and I saw some of the most beautiful slim, statuesque women. Of course some were actually men, and half of the rest were lesbian. But the remainder, white, black or whatever, were absolute speicmens of womanhood. The trick for me is getting a date.

To my knowledge, I've treated all my serious (emphasis on serious) girlfriends the same, white, black or whatever. The length or voracity of the relationship didn't vary with color.

By Malnutrition (137.148.71.235) on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 04:15 pm:

I enjoy being in a interracial relationship..my husban Delmar told me that he feels guilty because he is treating me better than he did his Black wife, whom he still ,loves dearly. Why is that "black men"? He told me he does it because he loves my white skin.... Is this so?
Another question?
Do you black men think we (white women) are prettier, or more feminine that your sista's?