It alwys amazes me when people speak in absolute terms...whey they say "all black men are this way" or "all white women are that way". Whether it be physical, mental, emotional or even spiritual, there are no absolutes when it comes to people. I apprecitate reading Peri's viewpoint and hearing the white male perspective on race and the different characteristics he's noticed between cultures, and therein lies the only real differences between all of us, CULTURAL DIFFERENCES. I am reminded of a plaque hanging on the wall of my junior high principal's office (which I had occassion to view often) that (paraphrasing) read in part, "a child raised in conflict, learns to argue...a child raised in love learns to love". We are all products of our environment to a large degree although each person has the ability to rise above or even to sink below what they learned via their environment. I know black people who are sensual, but I also know many who are very cerebral and sorry to disappoint you Peri, but I even know several who are "very nerdy" and very much like the Irkle guy on television. As far as what I find to be attractive in a white woman, it is in their kind and gentle nature. Black women due to influences in our culture and no doubt the events of history, tend to carry a certain "chip" on their shoulder and tend to be a bit more cynical in their approach to life than do their white counterparts. I find black women and indeed ALL women to be beautiful. Physical characteristics are and forever will be a personal preference found in the "eye of the beholder". I have seen white women with behinds that would do any black woman proud and have also seen black women with hineys you could iron on. I have seen oversize women that carry themselves with style and dress themselves accordingly and are truly beautiful and desirable. I have seen waife like models that I do not look at the second time. To answer your question Fran, I personally like a woman that is "womanly", by womanly I am definitely referring to femininity, but more that just femininity. In fact the qualities that most attract me to a woman or not physical at all. I like a woman that is sure in herself, strong of personality, laughs easily yet honestly, is passionate and not afraid to show her passion in all areas of life, yes, including in the bedroom. Peri says he feels that black men are sensual, yes we are that, Fran thinks we like white women who are "thick" or who have physical traits typically attributed to black women, and no doubth there are men of whom that is true. But all in all, black men, like white men and Latino men and other races of men, like a variety of things. Black men are versatile creatures, we've had to be due to our particular experiences in this country. I believe that it is due to those experiences that set us apart from all other men. Not that we are better, just different. We see life as it is, but also with a certain amount of "amused cynicism". And just for the record, if a nice looking black man is seen with a not so nice looking white woman (trashy white woman is a title given to all white women who dare to date black men, by the way) then maybe its because he sees something on the inside that the average white man is not willing to look deep enough to find.......

he Ebony (hey, if spade can do it, so can I)!

By Mad_scientist (208.191.101.202) on Sunday, October 7, 2001 - 02:04 am:

Peri, if you knew me, you would quickly change their mind. Black people are not more "sensual" by nature. They are more sensual because of different life conditions. White men often appear more "cerebral" because they are given more opportunities to be so.

I am a black male, and I am very much like the way you describe white males, except in a more extreme form.

By Peri (216.228.130.100) on Sunday, October 7, 2001 - 01:25 am:

Hi I'm new to this board and while I'm a white male
I Hope I'm welcomed here
From What I've seen this looks like a good forum
with fairly honest heart to heart stuff
What's my interest here?
Simply because I'm interested in relationships
between men and women period
I've come to understand a few things about
what attracts people to cultures other than their
own and I'm interested in hearing other's viewpoints. My first real girlfriend was Latina and at least at the time there was nothing you could tell me that would lead me to believe she wasn't the hottest thing on earth. I believe all relationships are difficult and hopefully have reward as well.
What I've learned from Black males is that they generally tend to be more "earthy" or kinestetic"
as opposed to many "overly cerebral" white males
That's why it's such a gufaw to see that little guy on TV who's a black teen Nerd. Black people are sensual by nature. They operate very much from the solar plexus (belly "brain") that is where common sense and intuition arise. And white men could learn a few things about life as well as women from their black brothers. White women as I see it are tired of seeing their fathers, their boyfriends and husbands peep over the top of the newspaper and say "yes dear I'm listening" in such a non-committed way. I think some times white men are barely "in" their bodies much less "connected" to their supposed loved ones whether psychologically or spiritually. I'm not saying that anybody is better than anybody, only that by
mingeling we might learn more as a culture of humans and 500 years from now if we shared the goodnesses of various cultures and stopped getting wierd and jealous we could be a better people.
Thanks

By Ishvara (38.163.112.79) on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 03:35 pm:

To address London's question,

In general I am not mainly attracted to physical appearences, however, there has to be something about the person to attract my eye in the first place but usually I'm attracted to qualities. I like physique, eyes and bottoms if pressed. Mostly I love and admire, supreme confidence, drive/ambition, strength of character, and those moments of unguarded gentleness. What I really like about men is their very maleness itself. I have found that bm seem to have certain qualities that I find absent in most wm I've met, dated etc. I have been with the "thug" type before and although the bad boy image does have it's seduction...give me a responsible, put together man over a little boy anyday.

By Ishvara (38.163.112.79) on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 03:22 pm:

Unfortunately it isn't just models, it's practically all examples of womanhood in the media that reflect this distorted image, except maybe athletes but even then the only ones being glorified are the Anna Ks. I definately think this imagery affects women way more than it touches men. I've found that men all have certain aspects in a women they like and are attracted to, many of these are the very things that women lament.

By Ladylily (152.163.207.208) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 08:12 pm:

It is tiring to see Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Models on AOL's home page day after day. Men who drool over them do not deserve good looking "real" women. Models are so thin they opt for breast enhancements. Otherwise, they would have sunny-side-up fried eggs for breasts. I see nothing sexy about fakes instead of the real thing. I think a lot of men are taken in by the model thing...glad to read that some are not. ~ Lily

By Spade (209.163.236.145) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 06:37 pm:

I don't believe fashion models are truly a good example of what might be considered a "standard of beauty" because these ladies are not coveted by men in general because they're beautiful AND sexy. They are too frail and skinny in appearance in my opinion and I suspect that the super model standard of beauty is a fraud to actually hide what most women know to be true about the kind of women today men are really attracted to. Many men are attracted to women who are not only beautiful but sexy as well. On average men are attracted to a beautiful women with a low weight that compliments their frame enough for them to look voluptuous in some area, whether it be hips, breasts, etc. If you were to put a run way model up against a woman with nearly the same weight but the right proportions then that woman would have the higher votes from men hands down (some men comely refer to such women as babes, vixens, and so on). These are the types of women the standard of beauty is based on NOT fashion models and models in general although a few of them may be exceptional. The standard of beauty is in direct alignment with what men view as beautiful and sexy because such creates the mold for the so called standard of beauty in the first place. The ladies men covet are women found in Penthouse magazine and so forth and it is there that the sources of the standard of beauty can be traced NOT a handful of models running about the television. A truth that not too many people want to speak on because they want to be politically correct.

By Hectorvelasquez (65.160.186.212) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 05:10 pm:

I guess that answered my question.

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.36) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 04:51 pm:

ain't that the truth, lily~!

By Ladylily (205.188.199.152) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 04:08 pm:

Did you know that if shop mannequins were real
women they'd be too thin to menstruate?

There are 3 billion women who don't look like
supermodels ...and only eight who do.

Marilyn Monroe wore a size 14.

If Barbie was a real woman, she'd have to walk on
all fours due to her proportions.

The average woman weighs 144 lbs and wears between
a 9-14.

One out of every four college aged women has an
eating disorder.

The models in the magazines are airbrushed - not
perfect!

A psychological study in 1995 found that three
minutes spent looking at a fashion magazine caused 70% of women to feel depressed, guilty and ashamed.

Models twenty years ago weighed 8% less than the
average woman. Today they weigh 23% less.

The Beauty of a Woman -

The beauty of a woman is not in
The clothes she wears
The figure she carries
Or the way she combs her hair.
The beauty of a woman
Must be seen from her eyes,
Because that is the doorway to her heart,
The place where love resides.
The beauty of a woman
Is not in a facial mole,
But true beauty in a woman
Is reflected in her soul.
It is the caring that she lovingly gives,
The passion that she shows,
The beauty of a woman
With passing years - only grows.

~ Lily

By Frangiapani (203.54.152.102) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 04:06 pm:

Black men just stand out for me, I honestly cant put a finger on what it is. Maybe its those eyes, they are so deep, features of black men are like no other man! I like a man who is of average build, not too skinny, not too big, Big sweet eyes, a sexy smile and a good dresser. Thats just the physical side, I think most women look further than that, a mans character and the way he treats me is even more attractive in my eyes.

By London (63.93.57.162) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 02:15 pm:

Frangiapani,

I think Swampfox8 and Wyatt summed my view as well ( no surprise ), but in addition, some slightly- ever so slightly, femininely plump WW that are attractive to me, slightly, now, slightly.

To further clarify, some years ago, at a club, I had this set of, in my opinion, grossly obese WW approach me and actually believed they had a shot at me based on the fact that they were White, yucky!

The extremes are not for me: emaciated runway model types to the other extreme: Richard Simmons "weeble-wable" types, no no no. In the middle, leaning towards the athletic type, but not rock hard, Exception: Chyna.

Query to the white women: I have read on several occasions here when the question is reversed: what kind of black men do you find attractive, replies are of the like: " I don't find black men attractive I find MY man attractive-he happens to be black" or Some celebrity is noted. What's up with that? Can you not specify anything in general about black men that attracts you?

London

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.36) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 12:39 pm:

fran,
how about another stereotype i've heard in my circle? "the longer the dreads, the whiter the woman". it sure doesn't help when you "fit" the stereotype tho, lol!

do you ever notice that these stereotypes are usually about the physical? when folks make remarks like these, it makes you wonder if they even have CONSIDERED that the ir couples attraction goes beyond the physical!

imo, i've found more brothas like "thicker" women (not necessarily fat), especially west indians. many jamaican men are really small and thin, but they usually have a "thick" woman. i personally like this kind of small man. it's nice to be able to put your arms ALL the way around him *smile* and i think they love the comfortable feeling of being "enveloped".

isn't that what it's about?

By Wyatt (207.8.207.28) on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 10:37 am:

Swampfox,

I am totally with you. I love feminine women who have athletic bodies or graceful, artsy bodies. I am acted to white women who are white women, not trying to be black women. I appreciate the differences in the racial features, body types and mannerisms. I think black women are beautiful too, but I enjoy them for being themselves, not trying to look white with weaves and contacts. Natural looks like Erika Badu and Jill Scott are very attractive for black women. What I like in white women is the long hair or short cut bobs, freckles, small breasts, nice bottoms--I don't see flat bottom white women much, the ones I hav know have all had perfect liitle toochies. Juliane Moore comes to mind when I think of a perfect type for me or Juillette Binoche. Althetic, outdoorsy, artsy, Waspy, Latin, Nordic or Semetic. Minnie Driver is also a knock out, as well as Blythe Danner.

By Swampfox8 (63.11.114.5) on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 08:51 pm:

Hey Frangiapani, i don't find white women who try to be black attractive. I can go after certain black women for that. I like slim/trim white women who are not trashy!! As far as the thick thing goes, i like curves but not a lot of fat in which a lot of people call thick. I don't like thick!! There's been talk about white women not having nice behinds- a lot of the ones i'm attracted to have great butts!! A woman doesn't have to have a giant ass or big breast to be attractive in my eyes. I like women with breast just small enough to go without a bra in a fitted shirt who also are the size of the gal in that movie 'THE MATRIX.' I like those little modern pixie type white girls with their cute little short haircuts!!

By Hectorvelasquez (204.248.132.227) on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 04:06 pm:

I do have a question. There is a lot of talk about how white women feel they have to live up to a beauty standard or ideal and that this causes much unhappiness in their lives. They should all look something like Barbie and be of a certain weight. Black women however do not feel as much pressure with this because they never felt pressured with the Barbie image anyway. Certainly anorexia and bulimia are not as common amongst black women.

Is all of this true or is it just overblown?

By Roberto (64.12.104.41) on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 03:23 pm:

Frangiapani:

This is a good topic. I can only speak for me. What attracts me more to a white woman is her posture when she walks and sits. It shows me confidence and self-assurance she has in herself. Her feet, and how she cares for them are for me a great indicator of how she cares for her body overall. White women have some of the most delicate hands. I love white women's hands. Maybe I'm from another world as compared to other men, but a woman's hands to me show humanity that is so symbolic in the nature of women. What can I say more about the body of white women? The proportions should be harmonious and matched with compliments such as hair color, length, eyes, and mouth that add greatly to her features. If you ask me what part of a woman's body thrill me the most, its her legs, especially her thighs. To sum it up for me, white women with the poise that goes along with proportions that brings out their appeal (she does not have to be a perfect barbie doll with me)and confidence in who she is, what she is and where she wants to go in life means a lot to this individual black man. The fact that she knows she looks good, but do not belittle others or her man is the most admired trait I find in many white women. Flat behind, big behind, white women with black like features like some Mediterrainean (hope I spelled that right) women, it does not matter if she does not have those other critical essentials that I look for in the woman, if not, then she does not interest me, I do not care how good she think she may look. ~ Roberto

By Roberto (64.12.104.41) on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 03:20 pm:

Frangiapani:

This is a good topic. I can only speak for me. What attracts me more to a white woman is her posture when she walks and sits. It shows me confidence and self-assurance she has in herself. Her feet, and how she cares for them are for me a great indicator of how she cares for her body overall. White women have some of the most delicate hands. I love white women's hands. Maybe I'm from another world as compared to other men, but a woman's hands to me show humanity that is so symbolic in the nature of women. What can I say more about the body of white women? The proportions should be harmonious and matched with compliments such as hair color, length, eyes, and mouth that add greatly to her features. If you ask me what part of a woman's body thrill me the most, its her legs, especially her thighs. To sum it up for me, white women with the poise that goes along with proportions that brings out their appeal (she does not have to be a perfect barbie doll with me)and confidence in who she is, what she is and where she wants to go in life means a lot to this individual black man. The fact that she knows she looks good, but do not belittle others or her man is the most admired trait I find in many white women. Flat behind, big behind, white women with black like features like some Mediterrainean (hope I spelled that right) women, it does not matter if she does not have those other critical essentials that I look for in the woman, if not, then she does not interest me, I do not care how good she think she may look. ~ Roberto

By Hectorvelasquez (63.175.47.187) on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 05:50 am:

If after having several glasses of wine, one is any more honest than one would normally be, well I am guilty.............

I prefer slim, trim women. I don't think white women are too skinny at all, but this is just my personal preference. I am not AT ALL attracted to white women who act like "black women from the hood," not all black women act the same way anyway. As far as the behind thing goes, I have seen black women with behinds "too big" for their bodies and I have seen white women who have "flat" behinds, I have also seen the reverse case. I like good proportions.

This is just my personal preference and it probably has absolutely no bearing on what other black men like.

To the white women who are attracted to black men, don't worry, the black men who are attracted to you find you VERY attractive.

By Frangiapani (203.54.152.247) on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 03:28 am:

I have noticed in the past and just presently other message boards and from what Ive seen and heard about Black Men and the type of White women they are with. How the usual BM/WW couple consists of a nice looking, skinny or thug type man with an overweight or trashy WW or if the WW is attractive, she is usually with an athlete or entertainer. Sure, Ive seen some not so good looking woman in IR's, but I dont think thats how it is at all. Ive seen gorgeous white women on the arms of gorgeous black men, and the woman wasnt trashy at all. I dont understand why anyone would say that.

On another note, do black men in particular have any kind of preference for what they find attractive in a woman? Im always hearing how BM like a "thick" body, a 10 face and a round behind, and how many WW have flat behinds and are too skinny. There are WW out there who have bodies and facial characteristics of black woman,who even "act" like Black Ladies, and black men are attracted to that. If that is the case, arent black men truly attracted to their own race?

This isnt a serious question, just wanted to get some thoughts from others on the subject.